...and the final test -- SHOOTING my reloads!

[Rick the Librarian]

The good news is that nothing blew up! :banana100:

The reloads did seem to have a little "poop" to them - more than it seemed that I remembered from a .45 auto, but it has been a while since I shot my .45.

Some of the cases that were ejected seemed to be a little (not a lot) discolored on one side - maybe the load a little hot? Also noted on maybe 3-4 that it looked like someone had taken a very light piece of sandpaper and slightly rubbed the upper 2/3 of the case all around.

Had only one case of a failure to feed. I tried it a couple of times and it still failed to feed. Probably should have brought it back and measured it, but I loaded it "singly" and it successfully went "boom".

I took both my Army .45 and the new Rock Island commercial auto and both worked successfully, except for the one cartridge above.

What do you think? Maybe lower the powder load to 4 grains?

Again, the load was 4.5 grains of Red Dot using 230 grain FMJs with once-fired cases.

[joem]

Consider buying a chronograph. It's a tool that tells you if a load is too hot or underpowered. Soot is sometimes produced by incomplete burning of powder. Also a max length case gauge is a very big help for new reloaders and insures correct die setting. If your reload goes in the gauge it will chamber.

[Jim in Salt Lake]

Better yet, see if one of your shooting buddies has a chronograph, once you have your load where you want it, you may not have another immediate use for it. Another piece of basic reloading equipment to consider is a case tumbler. Get your cases clean before you begin reloading, it's not just to shine up the brass. Dirt on your cases can dent them when you size them. Also, dirt on your cases will transfer to your dies, build up, and affect your quality. You can also tumble off the sizing lube on your rifle cases when you get to that.

[Rick the Librarian]

Some of those gadgets sound really good. Certainly a electronic micrometer and maybe an electronic scale. But mainly, I need to just learn to make adjustments. I think I have the basic steps down in reloading. Turned out 20 more rounds a little bit ago, including some cast bullets. The cast bullets seem to mike a little longer, but stil within specs - about 1.270" vs. 1.265" or so for the FMJ, using the same settings.

I noticed a slight waxy buildup on the cast bullets - should I have wiped them clean before I "mounted" them, wipe them before I shoot them or do nothing?

I almost forgot - decided to load these with 4 grains of Red Dot vs. the 4.5 I had been using.

[Tuna]

Your load is not a hot one at 4.5 grs of Red Dot. The darking on a side of the case quite often is from low pressure not allowing the case to fully expand and seal. Not a big thing and the wax build up on the bullet will not harm anything. It can allow a build up on the feed ramp but that is easy to remove when you clean your pistol. How was the accuracy with the 4.5 grs of Red Dot?

[Rick the Librarian]

It was acceptable - although my mind was more on the function of the pistols (I used two - my new RIA and my shooter Remington Rand.) than that. I had no "issues" except the one cartridge I mentioned in the first post.

I'll try the bullets I made with 4.0 grains and see how they work. I can see I'll be looking for some more bullets (probably cast) at this rate!! :D

I'm still not happy with the Lee scale or the accuracy of the Lee powder measure. The latter may be my fault - I don't seem to understand the adjustment. I have trouble getting consistant powder "throws" and have to tweak them (I still measure every one).

[sid]

The Lee scale and Lee powder measure are both plastic junk. Eventually you are going to need quality and these do cost money. The RCBS scales and powder measures are excellent and are what most of us reloaders use.

[Parashooter]

While the Lee powder measure is undeniably cheap and made mostly of plastic, it is still capable of throwing a 4-grain charge of Red Dot with ±0.1 grain accuracy if operated consistently. The key element is to develop a pattern that works for the powder and charge in question - and then stick to it with ritualistic devotion. The tedious 3-minute movie inserted in this post shows one way of operating the measure and also the results of inconsistent operation. The scale is set for 4 grains and the powder is Red Dot. There's nothing special about the operating pattern shown (fill, knock, dump, knock, knock, knock). Another pattern might work as well or better for you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXb1Bb61iAw

[Rick the Librarian]

I've been trying to use the same "operation," but sometimes (again using the scale as the test) the load is heavier than the 4-4.5 grains I want, and sometimes lighter. So far, the powder has been the one frustrating part of reloading for me. The other operations (depriming and priming, putting the bullet in) have gone very smoothly, once the dies were adjusted. I admit I need to figure out how to adjust the bullet seat and feed die. I plan to move to cast bullets fairly soon and eventually, to lighter cast bullets, as was suggested.

I used to develop black and white pictures about 25-30 years ago and I'm amazed/amused at how similar the processes really are!

At this point, I can't really afford to invest in a lot of expensive reloading equipment. I want to get an electronic micrometer (I'm currently borrowing my friend's) and do something about the powder measurement - either an electronic scale or better balance. I think my knowledge of the powder "throw", especially the adjustment, may be deficient, so I'd like to give it a little more time.

As I said at the outset, my goal is not to be able to crank out hundreds of rounds at a time, but maybe 50-100, max. Using the photo-developing comparison above, I also bought a "kit" that had a lot of cheaper parts. However, as I got more experienced, I replaced a few of the components that weren't accurate or didn't work right, but still had about 2/3 of the kit after I got established.

[joem]

I have a electronic caliper and a mechanical one. I sold the electronic one and kept the manual. I can read it faster than the electronics. Same with a powder scale, have both, Dillons, use the manual scale, faster easier to read.

[Parashooter]

I'd skip the digital micrometer (battery always fails at the wrong time) and find a basic .0001" mechanical one. Once reading the scale is mastered, it's quick and accurate. See http://cgi.ebay.com/0-1-OUTSIDE-MICROMETER-NEW-0001-GRADUATION-/230382745478?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35a3e1b786 for a cheap ($13, shipped) example.

When metering Red Dot through the Lee measure for the video, I found that some of those lightweight granules tend to cling to the interior of the drop tube - something that's uncommon with the heavier granules of most rifle powders. Three or four "knocks" after the "dump" stroke gets most of them out - but neglecting that part of the operation leaves some in there to be flushed out by the next charge, resulting in inconsistency.

Experience will build muscle memory and confidence to overcome the tentative nature of unfamiliar motion. With charges this small, variation of 0.1 grain either side of zero is acceptable and will have little effect on informal shooting. Greater precision is unnecessary and frustrating unless competing at the highest levels.

[Rick the Librarian]

Parashooter,

I do like the electronic micrometer, but I'll definitely try the "knock" and see if that helps the consistancy. I'm sure there is a lot of "Kentucky windage" involved.

I just posted a little bit ago more moaning and groaning about getting the powder throw right. I decided to watch your U-Tube video on the Lee powder measure. Very helpful, but the real breakthrough was one of the other ones on adjusting the powder measure!! Your idea about starting from the first "mark" and adjusting a turn at a time, was brilliant!! I just HAD to go out and try it and it WORKED!! Turned it 2-3 "turns" and was soon getting near-consistent throws every time!! No complicate math!!

THANK YOU!!!:banana100::banana100::banana100:

[Kirk]

As Tuna said, soot is an indication of low pressure - not enough pressure to expand the case & seal the chamber. Going from 4.5 gr to 4.0 grain = more soot.

[Rick the Librarian]

So it is best to leave the load at 4.5 grains?

I loaded 20 rounds at 4.0 - I'll see how they do.

[Parashooter]

So it is best to leave the load at 4.5 grains?

A little soot won't hurt anything and since the old 1911 is recoil-operated and not directly dependent on gas pressure for functioning, there's no harm in loading lighter as long as the pistol functions OK. The 1987 Hercules data booklet gives 13,900 c.u.p. with 4 grains of Red Dot and a 230-grain cast bullet, 9,800 c.u.p. with the same charge and a 200 grain lead SWC, and 16,200 c.u.p. with 5 grains under a 230 FMJ, showing wide range of acceptable pressures. Experimenting today on this subject, I loaded up a dozen with 3.5 grains Red Dot and 240-grain cast RN's. Functioning in my 1911A1 was normal, including last-round slide lock - no soot either.

[Litt'le Lee]

Red Dot is a dirty powder-switch to a newer clean burning powder like Hodgdon Universal

[Rick the Librarian]

As I am relatively "small time", I'll use the Red Dot. When I need some more (have a pound of the stuff), I'll probably look for something else. Red Dot wasn't my first choice, but it was the only .45-compatable powder the store had in stock.

Just bought 500 cast bullets on Gunbroker for $51 (shipping included).

[Major Tom]

In the past, I have found new reloading equipment on Ebay at very low prices. I like RCBS products.

[Sunray]

"...slight waxy buildup on the cast bullets..." Leave it. That's lube. Belongs there.
"...4.5 grains of Red Dot using 230 grain FMJs..." Where is your data coming from? No Red Dot jacketed data on Alliant's site. Not that that's complete. (I think they're married to Speer too.) 4.5 is the starting load for an FMJ on Handloads.com. The guy says it comes from Alliant. He's claiming a bit over inch groups. Go up to 5.0, not down.

[Rick the Librarian]

I used the data contained on the instructions that came with the Lee dies. They said 5.0 grains of Red Dot as both "starting" and "maximum" for 230 grain FMJ bullets. I couldn't find any information about 230 cast bullets so I emailed Alliant to ask about cast 230 grain bullets and they said 4 to 4.5 grains. They have an "Ask the Experts" link on their website.

Thanks for the info on the lube - just wanted to make sure.

[Cadillo]

When you finally get around to casting bullets, then you are really reloading. I've been loading for forty years now, but just starting casting less than a year ago. I always shot a lot, but now I shoot a lot more than I ever imagined that I would.

[Rick the Librarian]

I know a lot of people do it, but casting is a step I'm just not ready for, yet.

[PhillipM]

An electronic display is perhaps more precise, but not more necessarily more accurate than a dial. As for how to do this on the cheap, I have a good powder measure and scales but when it comes to making loads for my .45 I use Lee dippers. They are fast, cheap, and reasonably accurate to make the .45 go bang. It is easy with the scoops to accidentally double charge a case when using a loading block, so be extra careful or press the bullet on each time you charge a case.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=943305

http://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Large/943305.jpg

[Rick the Librarian]

You're right - they are pretty reasonable - I think I saw a set for $12.95 at my sports store. I've been pretty careful to avoid double-loading by moving my charged cases from one block to another, but still have noticed probable double-loaded cases on 2-3 occasions.

[Johnny P]

Pick up a nice name brand dial caliper off ebay. They are much easier to use than a micrometer and plenty accurate for reloading. Also, it takes a set of micrometers as they come in 1 inch increments, where the dial caliper will go up to 6 inches. Stay away from the battery operated.

http://i35.tinypic.com/2im7v40.jpg

[Rick the Librarian]

For now I will probably plan on a electronic caliper. I've been using my friend's and it seems to do a good job. I probably got the terms "caliper" and "micrometer" mixed up. Remember, I'm the guy who in high school didn't take metal or auto shop, I took journalism and English composition! :D

[Parashooter]

Johnny P's caliper advice is worth heeding. No battery, display, or printed-circuit to fail. Good brands include Brown & Sharpe, Starrett, Mitutoyo. Cheap Chinese versions don't last, especially when I drop them onto the workbench. :icon_rolleyes:

[Rick the Librarian]

Your reasons are good (I respect both you and J.P, not only on reloading but other subjects as well) but I think I'll try an electronic caliper. I'm well-known in my family for mismeasuring with a tape measure. An electronic readout is hard to screw up (although knowing me, I'd probably find a way!) :D

[Johnny P]

Check around and see what the battery life is. I bought a Starrett electronic because it would also read metric, but the thing ate batteries whether I was using it or not. After several calls to Starrett they replaced it with a later model, but the battery life still was not good. I have an old HP calculator that the batteries are somewhere around 10 years old, and it is still going strong.

[Rick the Librarian]

I know that battery life can vary - I also have an old Sharp calculator with a similar lifespan and good batteries.

[da gimp]

if using a powder thrower, always be consistant with every throw, both to empty & fill it. We've always had a coupla RCBS 505 scales that we use, they are not expensive & work well.

Always eyeball your powder filled cases in a loading block if you are using a single stage press, over charges & under charging is readily appearant. We always weighed every 10th to 20th case we were putting powder in with the RCBS thrower, since we bought a Dillon 550, we keep an eye on each case before we put a bullet on & move it to the 4th stage to catch errant throws (very dern few with the Dillon).Ball powders meter consistantly better & easier than IMR rod style too.

be safe, enjoy life, journey well

da gimp

OFC, Mo. Chapter

[Rick the Librarian]

Thanks to Parashooter's excellent U-Tube videos, I think I have the "powder issue" licked, at least to where I'm comfortable with it. As I said in a previous post, I try to arrange so after each step I move or turn the cartridge being reloaded, so it is obvious it is ready for the next step.

I start out with the fired cartridges "face up" in one block; after deprimering, shaping and reprimeringm face down; then, after the poweder is loading, face up (duh!) in the other block (I use two cartridge blocks - actually, plastic cartridge holders). I take a quick scan to make sure all the cartridges waiting bullets have the same load of powder (I empty out and reload any that look suspicious) and then insert the bullet. I probably weigh the powder on every "throw" at first, and after I get confident, every 5th "throw".

I'll make do with the Lee scale for the time being and keep my eyes out for a better one in the future, as funds permit.

[talucah]

Due to the low cost Boots Obermeyer ( the barrel maker) suggests using a Lee powder measure for each load. If you have not already done so hit home and go over the whole site.

"I have found it useful to keep measures set up for different charges that I use constantly. Since these charges are usually checked on a scale I have found the Lee measure to work well and it is quite affordable but won't be my first choice if I could buy one measure only. These measures and others come with a bench bracket. I mount these to a wood plate and I can then move the measure anywhere on the bench. I just clamp it down with a c-clamp. This also makes dumping the powder measure when finished loading, easy. I take one of these along with a Lee Hand Press on trips to Camp Perry in case of loading emergencies. THEY DO HAPPEN. One year a new lot of cases had some soft heads mixed in and I pulled my long range loads apart and reassembled them in old practice cases I had brought along. Every year, someone in our group has an unexpected problem and these tools get used. In fact they often get used at local matches. One common problem is bullets seated too long causing problems in rapid fire. ZIP out with the nut cracker and the day is saved." http://jarheadtop.com/articles_Handloading.htm