AD at the range today

[joem]

I shoot every sunday at a club and one older fellow had a accidental discharge today. He's getting older, partially disabled and I think his mind may be slipping a bit. We've been friend's for several years and this is not the first time he's had a AD. The last AD got him fired from his job. I try to watch him closely, but I can't watch him every minute. I hate to turn him in to the directors, but I'm worried. Need advice or thoughts on this. TIA

[wolley]

With yours, his and anyone elses safety or life on the line I think you know what you have to do.

[Tired Retired]

Well, you did ask for advice...

It is obvious that no matter how warm-hearted this guy is, he is also a danger to himself and others. I would first approach him about it over a cup of coffee, tell him your concerns and tell him you do intend to discuss his situation with the club managers. But I would also ask if there is someone who he could bring ( close friend, neighbor, son) that could assist him in the hobby he loves so much. That way maybe he will still be allowed to shoot at the range and it will be done safely...

Remember, its not just YOUR life you are risking by allowing this to continue. That ND (no such thing as an AD) bullet will not go into the head of a young kid at the range who is just learning to shoot.

I seem to remember a big national stink a couple of months ago about a young kid who shot himself in the head at a gun shoot when he couldn't control a class III weapon... I bet that both his father (who handed him the weapon) and every person at that range that day who saw it wishes that they would have said something - anything - that would have stopped that event from happening...

We do have a very dangerous hobby - a hobby rooted in death. It has to be safe - or someone could die.

My two cents worth because you asked....

[McLovin]

Can you or someone there at the range monitor him? I understand your conundrum, it might kill him to stop shooting but it sounds like he will kill someone if things don't change. What are you going to do if you have to look in the mirror and say "I should have said something"

[PhillipM]

Supervised shooting would be the most palatable solution. What were the circumstances? Did he unintentionally let a round go down range or fire in an unsafe direction?

[kcw]

There's a lot at stake here. Your friend has an obvious problem that could injure himself, others and endanger the existance of the club itself. Something needs to be done ASAP. It's rotten job, but it needs to be done; you can't look the other way.
Let me guess, he has other safety related issues besides AD's too. Leaves guns loaded while the range is "cold", handles guns at that time, etc.?
I guess that I'd first have an immediate heart to heart talk with the fellow. Do the best you can to get him to acknowledge what just happened and has been happening, and what does he intend to do about it. I think that I'd have another person with me at that time, another member that he knows if possible.
The tough call would be whether/when to bring club management in on it. I supppose that might depend on the outcome of your talk with him, but understand that your primary responsiblity is to the club and the other members. If you have ANY idea that your friend simply can't function safely you need to bring club managment into the picture, that's what they're there for. Understand that if you try to do something without consulting the management, and something goes wrong (and it will obviously be a serious something), you'll be in for a world of hurt too.
This is very much like the issue of hanging up the car keys for the last time. Ultimately the club might want to consult family members. GOOD LUCK

[Deano41]

You have gotten some very good advice here. I am reminded of that period of time when I knew my mother should no longer be driving. Fortunately for us, the issue was resolved due to a fall. She didn't have the strength to handel the car after that. But had she had an accident, and killed herself or somone else, I never would have forgiven myself for not stepping in. It's a difficult situation you are in, and I admire your concern. Please let us know what happens.

Dean (the other one)

[Brian Davis]

I shoot every sunday at a club and one older fellow had a accidental discharge today. He's getting older, partially disabled and I think his mind may be slipping a bit. We've been friend's for several years and this is not the first time he's had a AD. The last AD got him fired from his job. I try to watch him closely, but I can't watch him every minute. I hate to turn him in to the directors, but I'm worried. Need advice or thoughts on this. TIA

I would agree with everyone else who has posted here, my only point of contention is with the ones who say "wait & talk to him first".

You say this isn't his first ND. If it were then maybe a talk with him would be in order, but it isn't. And if it isn't his first then it won't be his last, either, & it's only a matter of time & percentages before someone gets hurt. And you may not get a chance to "chat with him" before his next visit to the club, & possibly his next ND.

Not saying that you need to ask the directors to ban him, but they need to know it's happened more than once & maybe they can take steps such as ensuring that he doesn't shoot without direct, constant supervision by a range safety officer or someone.

It's hard, especially with a friend. But you'd be doing him & everyone else a favour by bringing it to the attention of the directors. ASAP.

[Jeff L]

I'm surprised the range safety officer didn't intervene immediatly. I personally woud report it to the directors, lives are at stake here. This comes under the catagory of taking driver's licence away from your elderly parents. It's tough, but it must be done for the safety of the community as well as the individual involved.

-Jeff L

[Gyrene]

A ND can happen to any of us, if we are not really paying attention. The first one (by any individual) at our range, will get a serious discussion between a Range Officer/Rangemaster and the individual. Of course if the individual is argumentative and doesn't respond well, he will have to leave the range immediately!

A second ND, if we remember the individual, (and we usually do), will prevent the individual from any future return visits, without Rangemaster Approved CLOSE Supervision. THIS IS A SAFETY ISSUE!!!

I believe that the individual under discussion could accept that CLOSE Supervision, especially if he really does like to shoot.

You have a duty to yourself and everyone at your range, to discuss the matter with the Range Directors! I repeat what others have stated.

Gyrene OFC

semper fi

`

[limazulu]

"Turn him in to the Directors", sounds like you think they will draw and quarter him.

If you are concerned enough to mention it here then you should mention it to the directors or one of the officers of the club. You don't have to present it as a demand for a particular result. All you have to say is I saw so and so do another AD and I'm wondering if I should be concerned about it?

Remember the club can be harmed by unsafe shooters.

[BHillman]

Such as insurance. If they have to pay off, it may be the end of the ability to get insurance and keep the range open. The AD/ND could have gone off the range property and landed where it shouldn't have. The AD/ND could have shot him or another.

It's not worth the worry. All of us must know our limitations or they will be imposed upon us. Time to pull the plug. Do it with sensitivity but do it. He can still be an observer, read magazines, talk with old friends about the good old days...

JMO

Bruce

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