1917 target rifle

[remcolektor]

Inherited a US model 1917 winchester that has been converted into a target rifle. It has a heavy barrel with only 30-06 stamped on it. A bishop target stock with a bottom rail and palm stop and redfield olympic metalic sights. I dont shoot a lot of rifle so I wanted to ask the experts, was this a popular action to use when building a targe rifle and are there any quirks with the action to look out for when I shoot it. Thanks

[xprinter]

Got any pictures? I'd love to see what you got!

[Dan Shapiro]

As far as 'quirks'. It's a Brit design, therefore the rifle is cocked on CLOSING, whereas US rifles cock on opening. There was an adapter sold that would reverse this, making it similar to US design.

I've fired vintage rifle matches with both the '03 and '17. Rapids are a #$% with the '17. You're kind of out-of-position when extracting a round, but drop back in as you chamber a new round with the '03, no extra effort required to chamber the round. Personally, I've found you're out of position either way with the '17. Having to extract the round, and then FORCE the bolt closed to re-cock. Not as smooth as the '03.

Would like to see some pictures!

[Griff Murphey]

That's a weird one. I used to see all kinds of O3 target conversions back in the 60's... never a '17. I totally agree with Dan. Bolt manipulation of the '17 compared to the 03 is just awful. That guy that won the Vintage Rifle at Perry with one this year must be a helluva man.

It's possible the owner shot mainly long range prone.

[remcolektor]

Thanks guys. I will try to post a couple of pictures tomorrow.

[remcolektor]

lets see if these work

[mdoerner]

Looks nice.

Mike D

[Dan Shapiro]

Not a bad looking rifle. Has the ejector been modified from the original?

[Dan Shapiro]

Oh, forgot to ask. Does it also have the mod so that the bolt cocks on opening?

[remcolektor]

I have never seen a stock 1917 so I dont know what, if anything, has been done to the ejector. When I cycled a couple of dummy rounds through it, the cases flew out low and to the rear and it cocked on close.

[Dan Shapiro]

Here's a picture of an unmodified and modified ejector (with spring). You have to remove the ejector to check. One of the main weak points of the M1917 was the wish-bone ejector. They had a tendency to break on a regular basis. The mod not only works, but appears to be better than the original.

Did you check to see in the bolt cocks on opening? When you lift the bolt handle, the rear of the bolt will move back. If it's not modified, the rear of the bolt will only move when you lock the bolt handle down.

Pictures of unmodified M1917 are here:

http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/lodge/616/p17.html

[Dan Shapiro]

Oops. My bad. Getting late, didn't catch that last part. Odd, for a target rifle, to have it still cock on closing.

Here's the mod. Numrich still sells it.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Detail.aspx?pid=303560B&filter=303560B&catid=0

[John Sukey]

I can only ask where you have the most mechanical advantage operating the bolt. Lifting it up, or pushing it forward? Those kits to make a P14 or M1917 cock on opening made someone a lot of money but really aren't necessary.

[dave]

With practise, lots of it, you can get used to the cock on close. The Brit professonal soldier was very fast with No.1 and such models! Thats why the bolt is bent at that angle.

[remcolektor]

Thanks for all the info!! I'm going to the range Saturday morning and try it out. Then I can decide if cocking on close is an issue. I will check the ejector to see if it has been modified when I clean it afterwards.

[Dan Wilson]

Pretty nice looking rifle, must say that its the first one I have ever seen with the full race package on it and it sure looks good.
I hope it shoots as good as it looks :)

[xprinter]

Very nice looking gun!!

Let us know how it shoots!

Jim

[Cosine26]

While M1917 target rifles are not rare they are few in number. Most were converted to hunting rifles. I have built/bought and used four of them. The M1917 action is larger and more rigid than the M1903, the magazine box is a bit larger and does not give the problems that the M1903 sometimes does and it mates directly with the action, the firing pin is one piece, and the extra camming action of the locking lugs on the M1917 bolt gives more positive closure on slightly over sized rounds. The M1917 actions are of 3.5% NS and are far better finished that the 03A3’s or the 03A4’s. The action is much slicker.
The first target rifle I built on a M1917 action was on a Remington (cost $7.50) that I ordered along with a new barrel (cost $1.00 which I still have) through the DCM. I had the rear receiver ring altered to the shape of a Remington 30, trigger guard straightened, magazine box cut to five rounds, installed a Douglas supreme medium weight barrel, and a Timney trigger. I had a long slide Redfield Model 70 rear sight and a Model 66 Redfield front sight installed. I glass bedded it in a Rothschild’s target stock and added a M70 target fore end stop and a M70 butt plate. I used this for a year as a cock-on-closing action and had no problems. I then added a Viggo Miller cock-on-opening device. Viggo Miller was an Omaha gunsmith who built these simple conversions devices for either $5.00 or $7.50. It involved no welding on the bolt and required only a minor modification to the bolt plug and the cocking piece. The whole rig made the M1917 work like a late model Remington 30S. Lock time on a Remington 30 was shorter than on a M1903. I used this conversion heavily on a target rifle for about three years and never had a problem.
Cock-on-closing rapid fire requires the use of a special technique. You lift and pull back the bolt handle with the pointer and index finger and slam it home with the heel of your hand using a forward and down movement which puts your had back in the area the trigger.
My next target rifle on a M1917 like action was a Bull Gun built on a Remington 30S in 300 H&H with a heavy Douglas barrel -26” long finishing 1” at the muzzle. Again equipped with Redfield front and rear sight.
In the 1960’s Sarco imported some Remington Model 1934’s. These were military rifles that Remington built a couple of thousand for Honduras in 7mm and were based up-on the Remington 30S action. They looked just like Remington 30S but came with rusted out barrels. The one I ordered as a ‘barreled action only’ was in great shape except for the barrel. I converted this using a Douglas supreme air gauged barrel (26’ length ,7/8” at the muzzle) to a 30-06 target rifle and still have it. It was a very accurate (for the time) rifle –easily grouping MOA at 300 yards with match grade ammo. Not competitive for today. The later Remington 30S’s had a rib on the bolt al la Mauser which made the bolt action smoother. These rifles had all of the attributes of a Remington 30S including stippling on the front and rear receiver rings and being D&T for the Lyman 48.
The final rifle was a Winchester M1917 (Don’t fret collectors, the ears had already been hacked off by an amateur). I ordered a M1934 bolt and a cocking piece from SARCO (They were evidently selling off parts of the Remington M1934’s where the actions were too rough to sell.) had the rear receiver ring machined to Remington 30S configutration fitted a Timney and had a good action.

[Jeff L]

Nice lookin' rifle. Let us know how it shoots.

-Jeff L

[musketshooter]

I have seen another. They are difficult to manipulate in the rapid fire due to the cocking system and very long bolt throw. Probably best used in long range prone matches. (Palma type) Could possibly be used in the new F class matches.

[Comte DeLoach]

I have an anti-praire hog gun my dad started building in the 1950's. Its a beauty, and you wont know the difference on cock on opening or cock on closing, its just a non issue. He had it rebarreled to .243 Winchester. I need to get measured to adjust the stock and go shoot it some, but I got 1 inch at 100 yards and I havent shot much recently. So it was the gun, not me doing that. Maybe I will put up pictures soon.

[John Sukey]

Just a question, where is your greatest leverage? On opening the bolt, or on shoving it forward?

[kcw]

Just a question, where is your greatest leverage? On opening the bolt, or on shoving it forward?

For me the question isn't in the bolt going forward or back, but rather the cocking issue itself. To that issue I've found the wrist twisting/rolling of "cock on open" to be far more of a distraction than the straight forward pressure used for "cock on close". Of course I do 90% of my shooting off the bench or prone, so the left elbow is firmly supported.