Trapdoor Clean-up

[ScottNH]

I've been asked to clean up a rifle for a co-worker (executing an estate for his uncle) before he disposes of it (via GunBroker in all likelihood). I asked him to photograph the rifle. Here's what I'm dealing with:

http://i56.tinypic.com/2eujuko.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/20pyedy.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/210nn7t.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/2dqr3gn.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/35n5utv.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/11gqexz.jpg

Sorry for the quality of the photos. I make it to be a Model 1888 with Round Rod Bayonet and Buffington rear sight. The stock is dirty, dry, and has a chip missing just ahead of the lock, below the breech-block. The metal appears to have some light pitting and surface rust. No idea on the bore yet. The photos make the metal appear worse than it is (I'm told).

My plan is to coat the metal parts in naval jelly to loosen the rust, and then take a wire brush in the drill to scour it all off. For the stock, I'm going with Ez-Off oven cleaner. It's too big for the dishwasher. Then Minwax stain and Spar Urethane for a finish.

Nah...I'm just yankin' ya. I had to make sure you're still reading.

The real plan is to soak the metal parts in Kroil (or WD-40, but I like Kroil), and then, keeping it nice and wet, lightly go over it with bronze wool to clean up the metal. I'll have to see the bore to know what the scoop is there, but I'm assuming more Kroil and brush/patch to get it as clean as I can. Plan for the stock right now is an "oil scrub" of BLO and 0000 steel wool, and then follow-up with a few hand-rubbed coats of BLO to finish.

Anything I'm missing? The goal is just to get it cleaned up and looking good before going on the block. (I have a feeling I'll be wishing it was mine by the time I'm done.)

Thanks for the help, and all the good info here on the site.

[Johnny P]

The barrel of the rifle was originally rust blued (browned). The barrel was coated with a solution containing nitric acid and put in a humidity cabinet to rust. After the rusting process was halted, the rust was scaled off with wads of steel (not bronze) wool. Unless overly aggressive, 4/0 steel wool will do a good job of gently removing the rust, and won't leave any bronze residue on the metal.
Mix the BLO 50/50 with turpentine (the real one) for good results. Apply the finish coats thin enough that you don't have to follow up with steel wool as it will polish the stock.

[daveboy]

Love the way you started that post...I was eagerly anticipating all the anger you would unleash if you treated that rifle that way.

Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on fixing it up. If it were mine, I would try to repair that piece of missing stock. That is in a "no stress" area of the stock so squaring-up the existing hole and gluing in a piece of walnut and shaping it shouldn't be too difficult. Of course, if you don't know what you are doing you might probably do more harm than good.

It may just be the photos, but it looks to me like that rifle was parkerized. If so, collector value would be greatly diminished of course. The upside would be that in that case you can't do much to actually destroy the value.

daveboy

[Dan Shapiro]

IN cases like that, I've used Kroil and a 'pot scrubber' I bought at the Dollar Store. Removes the rust, leaves everything else alone. Also vote to have that missing area replaced. As for the wood itself, if really dirty, use Murphy's Oil Soap and soft scrub brush. Finish off with 50/50 BLO and Turp.

[ScottNH]

I've never tried the "pot scrubber." I'll look for it and give it a try. Do I take it that's stainless steel?

I just don't have the wood-working skills to try the stock repair. I'm afraid I would screw it up to the point it would make it impossible for someone to actually do a good job on it. When i get the gun this weekend, I'll take a bunch of pictures to document everything before I start working on it, and I'll try to get some better pictures of the missing piece. I'm also interested to see if there's a cartouche there, or any unit markings of any kind.

I've done Mauser, Garand, and 03A3 stocks with pretty good results. Luckily this time I don't have to contend with a ton of cosmoline. I usually apply a couple of coats of BLO straight, let them dry for a day between coats, and then finish with one or two 50/50 coats. On the Garands and 03A3, I finish off with a 1:1:1 mix of beeswax/BLO/Turp (Tom's 1/3 Mix Military Gunstock Wax).

Am I right in this being a Model 1888? I'm really looking forward to this.

[JimF]

Yup . . . . She's a M'88. --Jim

[joem]

If the wood is real dirty, try some Windex with amonia and add a little extra amonia and wipe with a soft cotton rag. I did that to a M1867 rolling block rifle. Stock has really pretty wood.

[Dan Shapiro]

"Do I take it that's stainless steel?"

Affirmative. I was hesitant to use it at first, was surprised to find that it didn't damage the finish. And it WILL NOT leave tiny pieces of metal behind like steel wool does.

As far as the stock goes, if the owner wants to spring for it, contact Rick Borecky (rborecky@mindspring.com). Give him a couple of photos and he'll tell you want repair will cost. He does excellent work at reasonable prices. Had him repair a stock fo me, unless you knew where to look, you could not tell a piece had been spliced in.

[ScottNH]

UPDATE: Well, I finally got my hands on the gun. Overall, it's in much better shape than I thought. Not pristine, or even close, but a good, solid workign rifle in need of LOTS of TLC, in the form of Murphy's Oil Soap and Kroil.

Serial number:

http://i52.tinypic.com/35l54r4.jpg

Left Side Cartouche:

http://i51.tinypic.com/jkexhl.jpg

It took me forever to figure out this was a Serifed P.

http://i51.tinypic.com/dgi5g5.jpg

Some type of rack number just aft of the tang:

http://i53.tinypic.com/30m1u87.jpg

And one on the buttstock:

http://i56.tinypic.com/15qrosj.jpg

And the only real damage to the wood. Shame, really:

http://i56.tinypic.com/2cqmrti.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/2moa746.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/155i2o6.jpg

The metal is soaking in Kroil, a quick "test twist" shows no frozen screws, and the barrel bands feel like they'll move easily.

This is going to be fun.

ETA: Shouldn't this be a three-position lock? Safe, Half-cock/load, and fire? This has a two-position lock, half-cock/load and fire. It's not like there's a worn "stop" or anything. It's clearly a two-position lock. Is that period correct?

[joem]

I wouldn't be cleaning too much. From some TV shows collectors like them showing age.

[Trap4570]

Hard to judge who will be buying it - collector or shooter. To clean the wood - remove all metal parts. Hang the stock outside and spray it down with oven cleaner and let it set a few minutes. Rinse off with a hose and repeat until all the old dirt and finish is removed. While it is still wet - cover the wood with a wet towel and use an iron to raise all the dents you can in the wood. Avoid ironing any stampings in the wood. Let the stock air dry overnight and then steel wool the fuzzies off and apply the finish or oil to the wood you like to use.
The metal parts should be carded with steel wool to remove old dirt and rust. Heat up ammonia and water in a 50/50 mix and wash it with a soft cloth. Rinse with hot water and spray it down with WD40 to disperse remaining moisture. Finish drying with a hair drier. Rub all metal parts with Crisco or cooking oil. The metal will absorb the oil and a few applications will be needed until the metal remains oily. Oil the moving parts with gun oil and assemble. It will look and feel like it was just pulled from the armory rack.

[ScottNH]

Hard to judge who will be buying it - collector or shooter. To clean the wood - remove all metal parts. Hang the stock outside and spray it down with oven cleaner and let it set a few minutes. Rinse off with a hose and repeat until all the old dirt and finish is removed. While it is still wet - cover the wood with a wet towel and use an iron to raise all the dents you can in the wood. Avoid ironing any stampings in the wood. Let the stock air dry overnight and then steel wool the fuzzies off and apply the finish or oil to the wood you like to use.
The metal parts should be carded with steel wool to remove old dirt and rust. Heat up ammonia and water in a 50/50 mix and wash it with a soft cloth. Rinse with hot water and spray it down with WD40 to disperse remaining moisture. Finish drying with a hair drier. Rub all metal parts with Crisco or cooking oil. The metal will absorb the oil and a few applications will be needed until the metal remains oily. Oil the moving parts with gun oil and assemble. It will look and feel like it was just pulled from the armory rack.

Thanks for the tips. The oven cleaner is a bit harsh for me. I'm going to remove the metal, but to clean the stock, I'm going to limit it to Murphy's Oil Soap and a soft brush. After wiping down with mineral spirits, I'll oil it with a few coats of 50/50 BLO/Turp.

Based on the advice of one of the members here, I'm using a stainless-steel "scouring pad," and Kroil. It's working well to take off the rust and preserve the patina. I'll give the cooling oil tip a try. Thanks.

[Dick Hosmer]

Shouldn't this be a three-position lock? Safe, Half-cock/load, and fire? This has a two-position lock, half-cock/load and fire. It's not like there's a worn "stop" or anything. It's clearly a two-position lock. Is that period correct?

No, it is not. That rifle should absolutely have a 3-notch tumbler. If it is to be fixed, the sear might need replacing as well, since they need to be fitted in matched sets. I don't mean "hand-fitted", but both the sear tip AND tumbler notch are different, between the "2" and "3" setups.

[Johnny P]

No oven cleaner. It starts attacking the wood and leave the surface "punky" if left on just a little too long. Some of the stock also change color with green being the predominate color. The wood has to be thoroughly hosed down to get rid of the oven cleaner. Remember the piece of wood is almost 120 years old.

[Trap4570]

Yes it will if left on. The advantage is it allows the wood to to expand making lifting dings easier and it will take fresh finish much easier.

[Johnny P]

The old stock still has most of it's old red patina which will be destroyed with oven cleaner. It's like using Naval Jelly to clean up the metal. Not the right procedure.
All that the stock needs is the missing piece replaced and a light cleaning. Completely stripping it and starting over will ruin it.

[ScottNH]

Yeah, oven cleaner is just too extreme for this stock. On one of my cosmo-soaked Mausers, maybe, but all this guy needs is a clean-up. I don't have the skills (or the cahones) to replace the missing piece.

UPDATE: Carefully removed the metal from the stock, and it all came off cleanly and easily. I'll try to get some pics of the lockwork. The metal is cleaning up nicely to a brownish patina. The bore is going to need some work, though. That's what foaming bore cleaner and bore brushes are for, I guess. More pics to follow.

[Trap4570]

I agree if you feel completely striping and starting over will ruin it. A good furniture cleaner can work well on the wood and using baking soda to clean the bore will stop any further corrosion. Coating the entire metal and wood with Renaissance Wax will preserve the rifle and it is what museums use for metal, wood and even oil paintings. I never yellows.

[Mike Josephic]

I agree with the previous poster on Renaissance Wax. I've used it on several of my collector pieces
and the results are outstanding. A little goes a long way, it hardens quickly and buffs to a nice
sheen. Works on wood or metal. This is something that's best used on firearms that you
don't plan to shoot as the normal gun cleaning solvents will remove it.

The NRA Museum uses it exclusively on their collection.

Mike

[free1954]

I agree with the previous poster on Renaissance Wax. I've used it on several of my collector pieces
and the results are outstanding. A little goes a long way, it hardens quickly and buffs to a nice
sheen. Works on wood or metal. This is something that's best used on firearms that you
don't plan to shoot as the normal gun cleaning solvents will remove it.

The NRA Museum uses it exclusively on their collection.

Mike





thanks for the tip. i had never heard of Renaissance Wax.

[Dan Shapiro]

Renaissance Wax- great stuff! Use it on all the old wall hangers. Has cut down on needed maintenance.