Any Smith smiths on board?

[JB White]

I like my Pietta-Smith carbine but it needs two mods to be a really nice shooter.

The trigger is terrible. Any quick tricks aside from stoning? Grease isn't the answer as I tried that first.

The front sight needs to be raised. I can make a new blade without any problem but I'm uncertain as to how the blade is afixed in the base. Is there a crosspin highly finished as to be invisible or is it sweated into the base? Can't see any evidence of a pin in spite of lights and lighter fluid in an attempt to find one. Before I try applying a bit of heat I figured it best to ask around first.

Thanks,

JB

[cwartyman]

The front sight is just pressed in. Pry it out and put in a replacement. You can get Higher front sights in brass from www.SSfirearms.com. As to the the trigger pull. Disasemble the weapon by taking out the long butt stock screw. Then the screws holding the side plate in. The Hammer screw. The trigger guard comes off also This gives you access to the mainspring. Undue the screw the that holds the mainspring then you should be able to get the tumbler out. On the full cock notch use a piece of emery paper and clean up the bluing on the full cock notch then silver solder a piece of brass that has been shaped to fit into the notch. File down the brass till the trigger pull is around 4 to 4.5 pounds. It wont do anything to reduce the length of pull put will make the pull weight less and much crisper. Hope this helps. Out of the box the pull is over 13 pounds.
Mack

[JB White]

That's what I needed to know. Thanks a heap. Brass shim stock on the tumbler crossed my mind so I'll definitely go that route.

Much appreciated,

JB

PS. I plan to use a taller and a bit wider blued steel front sight. My eyes pick up on the darker sight picture much better. As it stands, my brass blade is currently wearing black paint. The definition of the brass seems to all but disappear on me in the miday light.

[cwartyman]

Ive found that if you blacken the front sight with brass blackener than color the front sight with orange or green sight paint it stands out great against a black target. I use green due to the orange clay birds we shoot in the N-SSA.
Mack

[JB White]

When I was a lot younger I liked the color contrasting front sight. Made things a bit easier and quicker for me back then. Nowadays it's a different story. I prefer the black square post. The sharp definitition against the target is nearly always the same no matter the lighting.

The front sight is installed already with a dab of Loctite for insurance. Same basic side profile but without the extreme taper. I do have various thicknesses of brass shim stock on hand that I gave a try on the tumbler while assembled. Appears I have some that should go right on and improve the trigger without the fine tuning. I have some that gives a light, almost hair trigger. Don't think I need to go that fine. Probably tackle that chore tomorrow. We'll see how well it really goes next time out. At this point any improvement will be more than welcomed.

[cwartyman]

too light of a pull will cause problems with it catching in the half cock notch when the trigger is pulled, which is why ive found 4 pounds to be the just about the right the pull. In the N-SSA we can not go lower than 3 pounds.

[JB White]

The trigger is done and your warning about falling to halfcock reared its head. At least I was watching for it having been forewarned. Had to go back inside and file a little more twice before the hammer would fall cleanly. What began as a bad trigger, then a really nice trigger, is now an acceptable trigger at about 6 pounds with very little creep. It was the only way I could get enough overtravel on letoff to reliably clear the halfcock position.

All said and done the Smith feels like a much better shooter now. No more fighting the trigger and no more straining my eyes to pick up the front sight. It was a pleasure to dry fire so I imagine live fire will be that much better.
Thanks so much for the tips.

JB




BTW, before anyone chimes in about ruining a nipple and hammer, I do my dry fire with tire valve stem caps on the nipple. They work great, last a while, and are cheap enough so that when one finally does crush it isn't a problem tosing it away.

[cwartyman]

Glad I was able to impart some knowledge that I have learned from others that helped me. They are nice shooting guns as long as you have one that was not bored backwards. Early in their production Navy Arms who at the time was the only importer had a bunch in which the breech was tighter than than the muzzle. needless to say nothing short of a reline or rebarrel was going to get it to shoot. If by chance you have any problems with the clean out screw I can get you in contact with someone who can fix it. Other than these 2 problems they really dont have any other major problems. They go off when fired with 99% regularity unlike a sharps, and you can shoot them when raining when a muzzleloader just isnt going to be viable
Mack

[Gus Fisher]

Doing trigger jobs on both originals and repro Smith Carbines became the Bane of my existence at the Spring and Fall National Championships of the NSSA for many years. For a number of years when I still worked both National Shoots, I was the only one who would do trigger jobs on Smiths at the Nationals.

Ensuring the sear on the trigger does not hit the half cock notch is important, as you found out. I used to cut and reshape that whole area so people who did NOT keep the trigger pulled to the rear during recoil, would not allow the sear to hit the half cock. I used to run into folks who got a lot of their experience shooting .22 rifles in high school or college and they were known for "getting off the trigger" too early for CW guns and not following through enough.

Something else you can do to reduce trigger pull was taught to me years ago by older NSSA shooters. You take a piece of .015" or .020" brass shim and SOFT solder it onto the tumbler just a little way behind the tumbler face for the sear. What that does is not allow the sear to go down into the notch as far, so the trigger pull weight is reduced. The thickness of the shim is determined by how high the tumbler notch is. The guy who taught me used a commercial soldering iron to do it and he used soft, LEAD FREE solder you can get at almost any hardware store. If the shim is too thick to the point the trigger pull is too light, you can file it a little or go with a thinner shim. By using the soft solder and keeping the heat away from the sear face of the tumbler, you won't need to worry about softening the sear face.

As to how light of a trigger pull you can get, that depends on the gun. I was always happy to get an Italian repro around 4lbs to a little more. It was hard to get them below that and everything still work - so I never promised a lighter trigger than that. On original Smith Carbines, I could get them down to between 3.5 and 4 lbs because the parts were higher quality.

[JB White]

Thanks Gus. So it's OK if the shim doesn't go all the way forward into the tumbler notch. I've had a few locks apart to have some familiarity in the area but not enough to say I know them. Enough to realise there can often be a fine line to a delicate balance on something that looks so simple.
Heh heh...I almost ruined the first lock I worked on while attempting to "better" it. It was a Jukar lock and fortunately CVA was stocking a few spares for 20-odd year old shadetree gun mechanics. Good grief...the 70's. It just dawned on me how long ago that was.

[cwartyman]

JB,
Yes its ok if the shim doesnt go all the way into the notch. The sear will rest on the shim and the face of the full cock notch will keep the sear from being released. All the shim actually does is lessen how much distance you have to move the sear, thus it will take less trigger pressure due to the reduced distance.
Mack

[cwartyman]

With locks that have a sear spring you can also bend the sear spring as many are have a flair to them which increases the trigger pull, just be sure to anneal the spring first then bring it back to the spring temper. I havent done this in a long time so i dont remember the specs on colors or temps.
Mack

[JB White]

After learning how to make flat springs I made a few minor ones here and there. Retempering I've done with success but only to revive dead springs. It's a job that's simple yet it's a science that I don't fully comprehend. Not yet anyway. For now I'd rather not go there unless it's a last resort.

[Gus Fisher]

Thanks Gus. So it's OK if the shim doesn't go all the way forward into the tumbler notch. I've had a few locks apart to have some familiarity in the area but not enough to say I know them. Enough to realise there can often be a fine line to a delicate balance on something that looks so simple.
Heh heh...I almost ruined the first lock I worked on while attempting to "better" it. It was a Jukar lock and fortunately CVA was stocking a few spares for 20-odd year old shadetree gun mechanics. Good grief...the 70's. It just dawned on me how long ago that was.

Actually, I found it was better the shim did not go all the way up to base of the sear notch on the tumbler. If you have to file the shim, that just makes it even more difficult to do without touching the sear face. Keeping the shim back a ways makes it much easier to file/adjust as necessary. The shim will still hold the sear back when it is a little further back on the tumbler.