unknown Enfield

[Steve M]

I am a 30 carbine man, with an interest in 303 enfields. I'm afraid I do not have much background with the Enfields and would greatly appreciate a little help identifing one I have come across. I have no Enfield books. It is marked 52 69c76xx then No 4 MK 1/3(F)FTR . below that is a small flaming bomb then 5 or square S No 4 Mk?? on top receover rail it is mark US PROPERTY. mag has same s# Butt stock is normal, but forestock is perhaps sporterized? Rear sight is aflip sight similar to a type 1 30 carbine flip sight. What have I got? TIA Steve M. Hope not too wordy.

[Gunner]

Hi Steve,

for my opinion you have a Savage made LE. This rifles were made as an land lease for the Canadian and British troops in WW2. For that the U.S. PROBERTY. The squared "S" is the makers stamp for Savage arms. For the forestock..mhhh it is better to see it. The flip sight is standard to this rifles ( 300y/600y). Here are a few pics from my Savage.

Regards

Gunner

[Steve M]

I believe that is it. Thanks much. Stock has been modified, but a nice job. If you can such a thing about butchering a military stock. Thanks again. Steve

[Alan De Enfield]

I think its a fairly late Savage.
Savage numbers show the rifle production number with the C after the 'prefix' number so rifle 0C1234 would be the 1,234th rifle manufactured, 13C1234 would be the 131,234 rifle made, in your case (69c76xx) it is the 697,6xx rifle made and was probably late 1943.

It subsequently was FTR'd (factory refurb) at the Fazakerly factory (Liverpool England) to the Mk1/3 specification by modifyling the trigger so it hung from the 'action' instead of being mounted on the trigger guard - is there a date after the FTR engraving ?

[Ken The Kanuck]

Beautiful rifle Gunner, thanks for sharing.

KTK

[Sunray]

"...for the Canadian..." Savage rifles were made under contract for the Brits. Canadian rifles were made in Long Branch. However, when the contract ended all remaining finished rifles, parts, tools and machinery got sent to Long Branch. Rifles were subsequently issued to CF units. Had a Savage on my MIU when I commanded a CF Army Cadet Corps long ago.
Buckets of good info here. http://enfieldrifles.profusehost.net/main.htm
Ammo history and specs are here. http://www.303british.com/id19.html Rummage around the rest of Steve's site too.
"...Rear sight is a flip sight..." Standard 'battle' sight. Like Gunner says, 300 and 600 yards. Kind of surprised an FTR'd rifle would still have it. FTR means Factory Through Repair. Arsenal rebuild. Anything that needed fixing got fixed. Usually an upgraded rear sight too.

[Gunner]

Hi Ken, Thank you.:hello:

Sunray, yes the rifles were made for the Brits, but i have another one that was in Canadian use. It has a Canadian broad arrow and the # number was listed on a lot that was sent to the Canadian army. So not only the very good made LB`s was in use at the Canadian forces.

Regards

Gunner

[thommygun]

Hi everybody. It is very nice to have other Enfield enthusiasts as well. I just want to add that the No. 4 rifles weren't only in Canadian service. When in 1955 the German 'Bundeswehr' was founded No.4 Rifles were used as armament 'of the first hour' for the new troops until the FN FAL was introduced. According to reports the troops weren't very pleased because of the insufficient MK II flip sight (the sight that is installed on Steve's rifle as well). Much better sights are the MkI and MKIII / CMKIII versions, they allow the shooter a better sight adjustment.

Tom :-)

[Gunner]

Tom, yes the Bundeswehr used it and they used a lot of allied weapons.
The Garand, Carbine, LE, .50 Browning, FN High Power also the MG42. They were not only afraid oft the poor flip sight, they were also afraid of the big logistic problems. Wich ammo to wich unit. My dad was at the Bundeswehr at this time, he said the ammo problems were great. They used the Carbine and became ammo for the Garand. Then tehy went out to shoot with the MG42 and nothing happend. As they opend the rounds they found sand and sawdust in it. :eek:Then they had good ammo but nobody hits the targets without the shooter on the left side appr. 5-6m away. After eyeballing the barrel they`ve seen that it was wrapped to the left so that they`ve hit the left target,and the armorer had his fun with that barrel. He dropped a bullet into the barrel and after short time it fell to the ground. So in the first days of our Bundeswehr the russians wouldt have had a easy game with us. So they dont like LE`s but i like it !!!:1948:

Regards

Gunner

[Steve M]

Alan De Enfield: I thank you, and others, for your response. No there is no date after FTR. SM

[Sunray]

"...was in Canadian use..." For sure. Had one on my MIU(TO&E to you). Just not made for our troopies.

[Jim K.]

The "flip" sight was a wartime expedient for the Rifle No. 4. The original sight was a nicely machined sight, calibrated from 200-1300 yards, and adjusted with a micrometer screw. There were also stamped sight leaves and slides for a total of some eight variations, including three for the Rifle No. 5. The "L" sights were used primarily by Savage.

Jim