View Full Version : Looking for info on this USMC 1903 anyone have serial number info ?
Chrisdx3
10-12-2011, 05:51
So I made the trip up to the cmp north store last Wednesday to pick up a 1903. We were told while waiting in line by the armorer's that the 1903's that they got in had really dark bores so honestly I was just looking for a shooter. So after two hours in line I finally got into the store they had about 7 1903's left. So I started going through them really only looking at the bores I found one with a decent bore and grabed it. Got it home later that night and started to look at it since I really didn't spend too much time checking out at the store. Well to my surprise the barrel was marked USMC 8-41 with an s in a circle. Then I noticed a large hole in the side of the reciever and the electro penciled serial number on the bolt. Lastly I noticed the stippled butt plate and once apart the wrench marks on the barrel. Any way long story short I ended up getting a non molested reworked 1903 that was built by the USMC in 41 I was pretty happy.
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cplnorton
10-12-2011, 06:27
Man that is a heck of a find. You don't see many with Sedgley barrels anymore. I'm jealous!
Your action was originally built in 1918, maybe someone will help out here, but I am thinking July. It's really hard to say when it was rebuilt, or how many times, but there is a pretty good indication that it was since 41 due to the 1903A3 bolt. Your barrel was made by Sedgley in 1941, but does not mean that it was installed at that time. They made a lot of those barrels as replacements, I have one in the original wrap. The stippling on the butt plate was commonplace with USMC, but I don't know if it was exclusive. Check with Marine A5 Sniper to see if there are any other signs of USMC service or rebuild. An SRS check would be another good idea.
Marine A5 Sniper
10-13-2011, 03:51
921446 01/30/31 USMC HAITI
923793 02/27/36 USMC PORTSMOUTH NSY
926178 01/26/38 USMC SAN DIEGO (SURVEY)
930450 04/08/31 USMC HAITI
931631 11/18/42 USMC FMF
935609 07/15/30 USMC NICARAGUA
Nice find. I added it to the database. As you can see from above, it is in good company.
jt
Chrisdx3
10-13-2011, 05:22
Marine A5 so what does the list mean ? also I may sound like and idiot here but what is an SRS check ?
This is for Marine A5 I would like you to check Rock Island 347796 thanks! To Chrisdx3 the list is a data base of known usmc 1903's.
islandhopper
10-13-2011, 07:41
Marine A5 Sniper
I have a 1.2 million Springfield with a 9/42 Sedgley barrel. Mine doesn't have those grooves in the barrel like Chrisdx3's does (nice rifle Chrisdx3!). I wondered if I could PM or email you the serial if you could check. Probably not since it doesn't have the installation marks but it would be worth a shot if you were game. Thank you either way.
Chrisdx - SRS, if I remember correctly, means Springfield Research Services (or something like that) and there used to be an online source for it where you could type in a serial of a make of rifle and sometimes there was information on it. Usually not though, in my attempts. I think what Marine A5 Sniper is saying is that there are several known USMC rifles with serials near yours, which puts yours in "good company." Don't want to speak for anyone though. If I am incorrect on any of this, someone please set me straight.
PhillipM
10-13-2011, 07:46
Marine A5 so what does the list mean ? also I may sound like and idiot here but what is an SRS check ?
There was a man named Frank Mallory who researched the national archives for serial numbers of US martial arms and came up with an incomplete list. He compiled four books, each being an update and some cd roms and sold these volumes under the name, Springfield Research Service, aka SRS. A few years ago he had a site and one could just key in the number and see if you had a match. Those matches looked like what Marine A5 posted above. If it hit on the list for a fee he would provide a copy of whatever paperwork he had found on that particular small arm, usually nothing more than a notation in an inventory list somewhere. The records indicate where the arm was at a point in time. Where it was before, or where it went after is not included.
Most sales and national match rifles are listed in the database so that is used to authenticate some rifles.
Frank passed away and his research collection was passed to others who shut down the lookup site and don't sell the books or cd's anymore. I think all they do now is ask you for a check up front and if it hits they will sent you a record, but that's from shaky memory. Board members hit up other members who have copies of the books on this forum now to see if there is a hit.
chuckindenver
10-13-2011, 07:48
nice,,,i like this rifle, good score, even with the A3 cocking rod,,,i like its history...i always like to see rifles that have been around so to speak, notice the blotchy ghosty parkerizing,
iv been telling people for years, thats common with reparked rifles, stains under the finish will grow through, i like it...wish it was in my stable...thanks for sharing
Marine A5 Sniper
10-13-2011, 08:03
Marine A5 so what does the list mean ? also I may sound like and idiot here but what is an SRS check ?
The "list" is a collection of over 4,000 known USMC 1903 serial numbers. Your rifle qualifies. Congratulations.
jt
Marine A5 Sniper
10-13-2011, 08:06
347573 03/16/31 USMC HAITI
347573 03/16/31 USMC Pvt. Harvis C. Sheetz -1st Brigade, Port au Prince
347695 04/01/27 USMC
347720 05/26/37 USMC SAN DIEGO (SURVEY)
347961 10/25/30 USMC NICARAGUA (LOST)
347995 07/12/30 USMC NICARAGUA (UNSERVICABLE)
jt
Marine A5 Sniper
10-13-2011, 08:08
Marine A5 Sniper
I have a 1.2 million Springfield with a 9/42 Sedgley barrel. Mine doesn't have those grooves in the barrel like Chrisdx3's does (nice rifle Chrisdx3!). I wondered if I could PM or email you the serial if you could check. Probably not since it doesn't have the installation marks but it would be worth a shot if you were game. Thank you either way.
Certainly.
jt
islandhopper
10-13-2011, 08:44
Thank you sir, I sent you an email with the information. A long shot I'm sure but anything is possible.
Doug Douglass
10-13-2011, 09:12
347573 03/16/31 USMC HAITI
347573 03/16/31 USMC Pvt. Harvis C. Sheetz -1st Brigade, Port au Prince
347695 04/01/27 USMC
347720 05/26/37 USMC SAN DIEGO (SURVEY)
347961 10/25/30 USMC NICARAGUA (LOST)
347995 07/12/30 USMC NICARAGUA (UNSERVICABLE)
jt
You can add 378152, 1-10 barrel date, S31 serialized bolt, Hatcher hole, two bolt finger grove stock, A.A.J.
Ed Byrns
10-13-2011, 10:43
USMC rifles have certain characteristics that seem to hold thru most of there rebuilding procedures.
1903 rifles issued to US Marines prior to about 1941 remained with that service member thru his
entire enlistment.The only reason for changes to this rule were breakage,accuracy or it was no longer needed
by the owner.
The only reason Frank didn't get all the numbers is that he had only one lifetime.SRS hits for USMC rifles,
almost all the time,pinpoint a particular soldier and the reason for rifle replacement and the location of where the
new rifle was issued.
The USMC recording procedure for serial numbers never referenced Manufacturer(SA or RIA),unlike
the US Cavalry which always denoted the difference in the post war(WW1) era.
Most of those USMC middle 300K numbers , I feel, were RIAs.But, in truth,it is difficult to prove,
except for the fact that most of these numbers were coming into the system at the end of
the 1920's and the beginning of the 1930's.
Respectfully submitted
Ed Byrns
Chrisdx3
10-13-2011, 03:14
Hmm this SRS thing is interesting I mayu have to give a try it would be neat to find out something more about this rifle. Also I forgot to mention that the bolt has R stamps on all of the the parts that are marked if that means anything. The stock only has one mark on it and that is a P in a circle just behind the trigger guard. I am soaking up all of this info like a sponge if there is anything else you guys can tell me about this or want a picture of another part of the rifle let me know!
PhillipM
10-13-2011, 03:24
Hmm this SRS thing is interesting I mayu have to give a try it would be neat to find out something more about this rifle. Also I forgot to mention that the bolt has R stamps on all of the the parts that are marked if that means anything. The stock only has one mark on it and that is a P in a circle just behind the trigger guard. I am soaking up all of this info like a sponge if there is anything else you guys can tell me about this or want a picture of another part of the rifle let me know!
Jim's post is a snippet of serial numbers in the same range as yours. Your rifle isn't in the SRS database. "Jim's list" is Jim's personal list of USMC rifles, to which yours has been added after inspection here and using the SRS data to confirm your rifle is in a known range of USMC serial numbers. (Jim, correct me if I'm wrong). Here is the link to those in possession of the SRS database. http://usmartialarmscollector.com/
921446 01/30/31 USMC HAITI
923793 02/27/36 USMC PORTSMOUTH NSY
926178 01/26/38 USMC SAN DIEGO (SURVEY)
930450 04/08/31 USMC HAITI
931631 11/18/42 USMC FMF
935609 07/15/30 USMC NICARAGUA
Chrisdx3
10-15-2011, 06:13
so does anyone know aproximately how many of these USMC 1903 rifles were around in 1941 ?
John Beard
10-15-2011, 06:56
so does anyone know aproximately how many of these usmc 1903 rifles were around in 1941 ?
60,000.
J.b.
Dan Shapiro
10-15-2011, 06:59
so does anyone know aproximately how many of these USMC 1903 rifles were around in 1941 ?
February 14, 1940, the strength of the Marine Corps reached its goal of 25,000 enlisted men.
Figure since their philosophy was 'every man a rifleman' - they had at least that many 1903's. Prior to WWII, the Marine Corps was smaller than the NYC Police Department.
My Grandfather enlisted in 1900 at the age of 15. Retired after 30 years in 1929 as Sgt. Maj. Was recalled during WWII. He was absolutely astounded that the Corps' strength was increased to SIX divisions during WWII.
Marine A5 Sniper
10-15-2011, 07:11
John's figure is pretty much correct, including unserviceable rifles.
Troop Strengths
Army/AF Navy Marines
1940 51,185 215,273 28,345
1941 152,125 383,150 54,539
1942 764,415 1,259,167 142,613
1943 2,197,114 2,381,116 308,523
1944 2,372,292 3,201,755 475,604
1945 2,282,259 3,405,525 474,680
I give up on tables in this format.
jt
Chrisdx3
10-15-2011, 07:37
Ok so here is something funny my friend who went with me to the cmp also got a 1903 with a USMC marked barrel his is 9-41 the rifle serial number is about 150,000 after mine. The gun has the hatcher hole no serial number on the bolt checkered butt plate S stock bolt looks like the gas hole was enlarged on his as well.
Ok so here is something funny my friend who went with me to the cmp also got a 1903 with a USMC marked barrel his is 9-41 the rifle serial number is about 150,000 after mine. The gun has the hatcher hole no serial number on the bolt checkered butt plate S stock bolt looks like the gas hole was enlarged on his as well.
So Chris, how 'bout some photos of your buddy's rifle?
Rick the Librarian
10-16-2011, 06:34
As I recall, I believe the serial numnered bolt came later in WWII, so not having one may not necessarily count a rifle out. John can correct me, if I'm wrong.
Thats interesting and you have a beautiful rifle. I saw an 03 serial number 1268778 with a bolt etched 1487086 wonder if either are usmc.
John Beard
10-16-2011, 02:26
As I recall, I believe the serial numnered bolt came later in WWII, so not having one may not necessarily count a rifle out. John can correct me, if I'm wrong.
I speculate that the USMC began serializing bolts about 1940. I've seen bolts with multiple serial numbers in them.
J.B.
Rick the Librarian
10-16-2011, 08:03
I thought at an earlier time that you said the numbered bolts came later, but I may have misunderstood.
I thought at an earlier time that you said the numbered bolts came later, but I may have misunderstood.
Rick, you have to be more carefull around that bore cleaner.
And lets add to the bolt info, that they redrilled the smaller hole and added a second hole to the bolt..
Marine in 2015
06-08-2013, 03:45
Here is another one i just bought. Here is the web addresss to it http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=344206820
It is a Rock Island made in 1906. the serial number is 30,070 it has 9-41 with an S with a circle and USMC on Barrel i gave $768. Due to the selling saying because it is a low serial number he wouldnt fire it. it shoots great there were no failures at all in any receivers made in 1906 so i shot it.
Griff Murphey
06-11-2013, 05:42
You very lucky G.I.!
Rick the Librarian
06-11-2013, 06:22
This one is a bit of a mystery -- note the M1917 upper band and the (almost) scrubbed receiver - almost looks like a Sedgely, to me, but wonder where the USMC barrel came from.
The Great Lakes Naval Base sold 1903 barrels up into the early 60's for $3 each, some were USMC Sedgely 41 and 42 dated all had the navy vise marks. They also sold 1903A3 barreled actions for $10 each (but they never sold low number 1903's.) This at their retail store only open each Monday of each month
John Beard
06-11-2013, 07:40
Here is another one i just bought. Here is the web addresss to it http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=344206820
It is a Rock Island made in 1906. the serial number is 30,070 it has 9-41 with an S with a circle and USMC on Barrel i gave $768. Due to the selling saying because it is a low serial number he wouldnt fire it. it shoots great there were no failures at all in any receivers made in 1906 so i shot it.
Your rifle is a re-barreled Sedgley cadet rifle. Only the barrel has USMC provenance.
Hope this helps.
J.B.
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