L39A1 value

[Steve(WA)]

Hello all....after having owned this for quite a while, I have decided to stick to US made arms. I am going to list, here or later with GB, a very nice condition L39A1. Bolt matches serial number, has all the correct markings for pressure and such. Receiver marked "7.62m/m L39A1. UE.72 and serial number" Also has the number "1" marked on the stock and on the magazine. Magazine will hold .308 shells, it is not a single shot. Heavy hammer forged barrel. Parker Hale PH5E4 rear sight. Has the extra front sight inserts, but no place in the buttstock for them. I put the Enfield sling on that is probably not correct for the gun. I would like to know a fair value for it. Bore bright. No visible import markings, but I did not look under the wood. Behind the trigger guard, stamped in the wood is "CR 511 and AJP, 1976" It also has the serial number stamped in the stock. Thanks all, Steve

[John Sukey]

The place for those inserts is a small round brass container held to the bottom of the pistol grip by a couple of screws. If you were going to keep it I do have a spare, but since you are going to sell it.....

[Steve(WA)]

Thanks John. If it sells or if I decide to keep it maybe we can hit you up! I would be glad to keep it, but sometimes you need to re-cycle the safe.

[John Sukey]

Havent bought anything for a while, so Have no idea on value, but since there will be NO MORE of those L39A1's available, make damm sure you get a current value!

I bought my L39A1 and L42A1 while they were still on the boat and they didn't last long once they arrived.:eek:
The only inexpsnsive one in that shipment was the L59A1 and I got one of those as well.

[tlvaughn]

There was one for sale recently for approx. $1,675 +/- (I cannot remember the exact and was unable to find it). If I remember correctly, it was listed for a while, so I do not know if he ended up selling it or not.

The last one I saw that actually sold was in 2010 - $1,750. I wrote a few notes down from the sale:

All matching. TZ4/47 Target Rear Sight (AJP) marked 7.62 mm w/ Parker Hale PH60 6 hole eye piece. Front globe PH-FS22 w/ 2 inserts. PH target swivel and PH brass front globe element holder.

[Steve(WA)]

Very nice, thank you both for the info and advice.

[Frederick303]

Your stock seems to have been replaced with an Envoy butt stock and forend, at least that is what the pictures show. I cannot be sure of the forend as you do not have a clear picture. If the forend has a triangular shape, it is of the Envoy pattern. The L39 as shipped from Enfield did not have the repeater magazine and used cut down No 4 MKII wood. The magazine has been added as well.

None of these changes indicate “humping”, as these rifles were target arms and most target arms have some modifications done to them once in the hands of the shooter. The AJP marking stands for Alfred J Parker; a well known shooter pre 1964 whose firm continued in the business until his daughter died. That marking indicates the rifle was reworked by that firm, most likely to fine tune it. This would be considered a top of the line pre 1985 period target rifle for use in common wealth Full bore shooting (after 1985 the swing action and improved ammunition gradually replaced the No 4 based target rifles).

If there is no import stamp, it did not come in with the shipment from Navy arms around 1995~1996. Given the AJP marking it is very likely it was not part of that shipment. Quite a number of these type of arms have drifted south from Canada since 1998, it is likely that it came from there. Unless it “drifted south”, it is required to have an import marking after 1984. A few of the Envoy arms were imported between 1970 and 1984, after the 1970 Palma rifle was approved for import and was not considered military surplus. The L39A1 was not eligible for import before 1984, as if was considered military surplus and a such was banned by the GCA of 1968. The only fellow to import these type of arms other than the Navy arms lot was Joe Salter and Brian Dick.

As for value, it is not exactly as-issue, the wood being replaced. What really matters in the markings on the action, as there are a number of target rifles made up similar toL39A1 configuration using regular No 4 actions that are quite a bit cheaper, (around 700~750 dollars). The 1,675 dollar correct L39A1 rifle has been for sale for close to a year now with no takers. You indicated it is not import marked which might make it more desirable. The magazines are worth about 100 dollars alone (if CR marked). Though not an original L39A1, it is an excellent example of a civilian tuned target rifle version of this rifle.

Given the current somewhat scaled back market, I would guess it would sell for about as much as a 1970’s period Palma rifle. A 1979 New Zealand Palma rifle sold for 975 recently on Gunbroker. There is a Swing MK III Palma rifle on Gunbroker for around 1175, or was until recently and it did not seem to be a quick sale (though the Swing MK III action was the least desirable action of that type). Back a few years ago I saw a Musgrave 1974 Palma rifle and a Canadian 1982 Palma rifle sell as a set for 1,500 dollars (total for both) at Camp Perry. Those arms had providence as they had been owned by Robert Jensen, a well known US Palma team member. I would guess that a more realistic figure would be in the 950 to 1200 dollar region. If you refitted it with the correct L39 A1 wood it might go for a bit more, or if the forend is the original wood just get a Fazakerley beech butt and include that with the rifle when you sell it. Unless you find a buyer on one of the Enfield sites (good place to start) you will most likely get the best price for it on Gunbroker, if you can get a few fellows into a bidding war.

[John Sukey]

Brain fart. Just remembered that in addition to my L39A1 I also have one by Ms Parker. The only difference is it is not marked as a L39 and it is nicer then than the real one since it is new.

Visited the shop years ago and her comment was "It's a hard business and i am only a woman" She would have made Saddam pee in his pants
:D

[Steve(WA)]

Thanks to you both, I know some about these fine rifles from internet research, but you really have provided an advanced lesson. Including more pictures. The wood all matches well in shade and texture. Pictures of the serial number on the forend and markings on the rear. The magazine is marked CR 1256 1965. May I ask who would have numbered the wood and magazine with the number "1"? Military or post military shooters? It has very smooth trigger and bolt action. It is marked "L39A1" on the receiver as mentioned earlier. Thanks all again, Steve

[Frederick303]

Steve,

After looking at your second pictures, the front wood is from a correct L39A1. The rear wood and buttplate are Envoy pattern.

I went and checked out some of my old AJP catalogs last night, and it appears that AJP offered a service to tune military target rifles. In their catalog from the mid 1960s they say they will tune rifles from cadet and other military organizations. It is most likely that your rifle went through their shop in 1976, and hence the changed out buttstock.

The letter code is likely from some organization such as the cadets or some regiment.
Given the above you might want to look very close for a Navy arms import mark, perhaps on the underside of the barrel just in front of the forend.

Given that it is likely a tuned L39A1 its value might be higher than my estimate, I am into older target rifles and to a large extent the true military rifle collectors do not really collect such arms. As such estimating its collector value, due to the L39A1 markings is beyond my competence. Certainly real L39A1 rifles are not common and a legitimate variant of the Enfield to strict military collectors.

[Steve(WA)]

Thanks again Frederick 303. Helpful info and will give me more to start looking for. With such an interesting background, I might just keep it. Take care, Steve

[tlvaughn]

I hope I am not breaking any rules of the forum, but the L39A1 has been relisted if you would like to compare it to yours:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=258985550

[Steve(WA)]

Thanks. If anything, it is more original than mine, although the match "conditioning" mentioned by Mr Frederick303 is pretty interesting on mine. My rear sight is different too. Be interesting to compare the trigger pulls of the two. Mine is quite smooth, but I am sure that one is too.

[Frederick303]

After doing a little internet research, I would say a correctly marked L39A1 seems to be a 1500 dollar or over item. The one that has been floating around on Gunbroker is missing the front sight elements and the small insert box for the sight pieces, which is most likely one of the contributing reasons to why it has not sold at the asking price. Yours is a nicer example, unless the collector wants a strictly military as issued piece.

[spinecracker]

Following up on this thread, you mention that the rear sight is a PH5E4. This rear sight was used on the Enfield Enforcer rifles and, due to it being further back on the receiver than other rear sights, needed a modified and shortened safety catch. Could you confirm that the rear sight is indeed a PH5E4 and post a photo of the safety catch? If it is one of the modified types, then it is quite valuable in itself, and the PH5E4 rear sight isn't exactly cheap, either.