garand 308 conversion question

[goo]

all you need is a 308 barrel, right?
...
hey, the only dumb question is the one you don't ask.
...

quiz, if you can translate "dinky dau", you pass the "old fa*t" test.
if not, you're soooo boot, you're still crappin' boot camp chow.
...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3623/3623024942_e4b46ae903.jpg

[paul v]

I believe that's all you need Goo. Paul

[Ping Sr.]

Maybe a spacer? Think it depends on whether it feeds........

[Chief]

dinky dau: crazy, to be crazy
regards,
Chief

[Twinson]

All you need is a .308 chambered barrel. You will have to finish ream the barrel if it is new (short chambered). I went ahead and put the block inside that prevents a 30.06 cartridge from being inserted. I also had a rear sight cover installed that is laser engraved 7.62MM as I chamber mine for 7.62 not.308. James

[Jim White]

The barrell is all you need. The plastic insert is a nice reminder if you have one. And by the way, should the barrell installer mess it up (the 308 barrel) don't bother chambering it out and use it as a 30.06 barrel because it won't work. The 308/7.62 gas ports are much larger than the 30.06 barrells.

HTH

[UUURah]

The guy who originally installed my Wilson barrel did just as stated. But one other thing.

Mine would toss the cases in the next county. The guy next to me on the range didn't have to worry. The guy 4 spaces down got the cases.

I believe it was Gus who suggested clipping some turns off the Ejector spring. I took mine and clipped only one turn, that did it.

Now they drop gently two feet to the right. Everyone is happy.

[Rick B]

Just the barrel as stated above and a block if you want. ShooterM1 used to make a nice "7.62" marked Sight cover.:1948: Rick B

[goo]

thanks, gents. seems to me a field grade or a rack grade from the cmp would be a nice canditate for a 308 barrel...

RACK GRADE: (Fair)
Rack Grade Rifles. Most of these rifles have been refinished or rebuilt at least once while in military service and will likely have some parts from other manufacturers. Rifle wear will be exhibited by worn and mixed colors of the finish; there may be some minor pitting on the metal parts; wood will be basically sound but may be well used with minor hairline cracks, poor fit, and many dings, scratches and gouges; wood may not match in color, type of wood or condition. These rifles may have some foreign parts and wood may be Walnut, Birch, Beech or other variety. Rifles do not have import marks. Bores will be generally good with only minor imperfections; the barrel crown may be nicked, and the muzzle may gauge more than “3” on muzzle gauge. The Throat Erosion will gauge more than “5”The overall appearance and condition of the rack grade will generally be rougher than any other grade. Fair condition.

Manufacturer selection only guarantees the receiver was produced by the manufacturer listed. The barrel and the other parts may have been produced by other manufacturers.

FIELD GRADE: (Fair to Good)
Field Grade Rifles. Most of these rifles have been refinished or rebuilt at least once while in military service and will likely have some parts from other manufacturers. Fair to good condition. Rifle wear will be exhibited by worn and mixed colors of the finish; there may be some minor pitting on the metal parts; wood will be basically sound but may be well used with minor hairline cracks, and many dings, scratches and gouges; wood may not match in color, type of wood or condition. These rifles may have some foreign parts and wood may be Walnut, Birch, Beech or other variety. Rifles do not have import marks. Bores will be generally good with only minor imperfections; the barrel crown may be nicked, and the muzzle may gauge more than “3” on muzzle gauge. The Throat Erosion will gauge less than 5 – well within US Army standards. Do not expect rifles in mint condition in this grade.

Manufacturer selection only guarantees the receiver was produced by the manufacturer listed. The barrel and the other parts may have been produced by other manufacturers
...
RM1SAR M1 Garand, SA Rack Grade
Please allow 90-120 days for delivery
*See below for grade description $4455
...
RM1SAF M1 Garand, SA Field Grade
Please allow 120 days for delivery
*See below for grade description $495

[Jim K.]

The spacer block is not to prevent loading a .30-'06 round (which wouldn't chamber anyway), it is to prevent the shorter 7.62 NATO rounds from jumping forward under recoil and jamming. It serves the same purpose as the bullet guide does for the .30 rounds.

Jim

[Hip's Ax]

Hey Goo!! Since your changing the barrel get a Rack Grade. Thats what I would have ordered last June but they were out of stock so I went for a Field Grade for my NM project.

[John Kepler]

The spacer block is not to prevent loading a .30-'06 round (which wouldn't chamber anyway), it is to prevent the shorter 7.62 NATO rounds from jumping forward under recoil and jamming. It serves the same purpose as the bullet guide does for the .30 rounds.

Jim

Not really, though that's one of the myths! The rifle runs just fine in .308 without the block, that IS to prevent misloading a .30-06. I've built many of them over the years and never used a block or had a feed malfunction!

[Bilbo]

John is correct. The .308 rounds are held by the clip and don't jump forward until urged so by the bolt. The REAL reason for the spacer is when you're in a hurry to get to a match, when you pull back the bolt as you take the rifle out of the safe, you'll see the white spacer and realize you've grabbed the .308 Garand! Don't ask me why I know this.:icon_redface:

Bilbo

[bearbadge]

I have a garand that won't run without the spacer blok. You can see the rounds gitting jostled in the mag well. They always misfeed without it. I have another that runs just fine without it. I have talked with other friends that have had the same problem I have.

[browningautorifle]

I've built the 308's also and used a 30-06 barrel with the swage in chamber spacer. I didn't have to change the gas port or use a white plastic mag spacer. I had no problems, it functioned perfectly and the chamber spacer stayed put.

[Karl]

I've built the 308's also and used a 30-06 barrel with the swage in chamber spacer. I didn't have to change the gas port or use a white plastic mag spacer. I had no problems, it functioned perfectly and the chamber spacer stayed put.

I have a question for you. What happens when your bolt extracts not only a fired cartridge case, but your chamber swage as well? How will you know that has happened? If this event ever does occur (and you don't happen to notice), you may be in for a big surprise the next time you squeeze the trigger. Firing a .308 round in a .30-06 chamber (without a chamber swage) is not recommended. That is why some pretty experienced folks here don't recommend installing a chamber swage, and they do recommend installing a .308 barrel. HTH, Karl

[Bob S]

From TAR about 40 years ago:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/BobS1/308in30-06.jpg

[John Kepler]

I have a question for you. What happens when your bolt extracts not only a fired cartridge case, but your chamber swage as well?

Absolutely nothing! The rifle quits shooting and you go look in your brass for the ejected chamber insert! The extractor rarely holds the .308 case in a position where the firing pin can fire it!

This is NOT to say that those inserts are a good idea....when they do shoot, you can't hit diddly with them, but this is yet another myth that should have had a stake driven through it's heart decades ago by simple facts!

[Ping Sr.]

The ejector always pushes against the rear of the case. Probly would keep it from being flat on bolt face.

[browningautorifle]

I know what the old hands say, I've heard and read the same things. I installed the insert and no matter how hard I tried to get it to come out, it didn't. It seemed to shoot as well as any other 308. Now to Qualify that, I WASN"T shooting matches with it. This was just off hand shooting out to two hundred and that's all. Whether or not YOU recommend it isn't my worry. I was just stating that not only did it work but it never failed.

I would far rather have a 308 barrel but here in Canada those are a little hard to come by. We can't import them affordably. Unless you guys can source me one.

[John Rippert]

I installed one of the Fulton metal spacers in my .308 Garand. It not only keeps me from screwing up but it helped with a nose dive jamming problem I had with mine. Between the Schuster gas plug and the spacer it has since been 100%.


While I am at it, picture test:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/johnrippert/Garand308.jpg

[Louis1332]

Back in the 80's when I was a new shooter (High Power), one of the guys got an 8 point leg with an M1 with the 7.62 insert. A few guys had them and they never came out. Also, the gas port was never changed.

Look at Bob's post. I scored a guy in a Leg match who told the ammo issue folks he needed 7.62. He was shooting a .30-06 Garand. After he shot his ten shots standing, all his brass looked like .458 Win. Mag. Since then, I've seen the aftermath of the same thing a couple of times. This is not theory. This is what happened.

As for the spacer, of the dozen or so that used 7.62 Garands around here (Central Texas) back then, only one had a spacer. Whoever built his rifle put it in and he was happy. Even though every once in a couple of years he would have a malfunction becase of a "long round." For those not up with the old lingo (sp?), a "long round" is a cartridge not seated back fully in the clip. Those of us without spacers never had the problem.

[Gus Fisher]

The only other thing you usually have to do to install a .308 barrel is to drill out the gas port with a .096" drill bit. The original G.I. gas port size was .106", but most rifles don't need that much gas. HTH

[RayBrandes]

When the Blind Hogs started building Garands for the rattle battle, I went with .308. However, the powers north of Atlanta determined that in spite of the improved accuracy claims for .308, the chamber pressures were much higher for the same mv using .308 vs: .30-06. So, those guys went .30-06. The next M1 I have accurized will be in .30-06.

Regarding the spacer, I have never had a round jump out of the clip. With the spacer installed you will not have the luxury of loading ammo "seated out" nor will it tollorate a long round. You usually find this out on the reload during a rapid string.

Regards, Ray in FLA
Blind Hogs Founding Member.
Three time winners of the Garand Award in the NTIT.

[Bob S]

Those ugly white nylon/plastic magazine inserts in the Mk2-1 service rifles would get brittle and crack. When that happened, they would come adrift and really jam up the works. We figured this would not be a good idea if someone was shooting at us, so we pulled the inserts out and threw them away. When the time came to go in-country, they took the M1's away and gave us Matty Mattels.

I don't recall if my McCoy rifle came with a magazine insert or not, but if it did, it's not there now!

[BHillman]

he said the spacer was unnecessary. I've never had a failure to feed or fire. My SecNav rifles (7.62) all have the spacer. You have to remember, the gov't sometimes over engineers. If you use it, like Ray mentioned, you can't seat bullets out farther if you have a long throat.

If your preference is to use it...have a ball, if you have a large number of M1s, it may make it easy for you to quickly tell a 7.62 from a .30-06. But, do not convert bbls with the chamber spacer. Then you ask for a new set of problems.

Bruce

http://militarysignatures.com/signatures/member6705.png