What would it take to get the American people to rebel?

[Ken The Kanuck]

As far as I know there have been 2 occasions when the American people have rebelled, once against the British and once by the south against the north, In both cases I believe it was the loss of freedoms that caused these rebellions. Either personal or state. (mind you I'm sure I'll get another learning with that statement):icon_lol:

Listening to many here I have to wonder if it could be possible for the American people to rebel again? Or are those days over?

Thanks,

KTK

[Oyaji]

We just might see a rebellion in 2012 if Hussein is reelected and Congress doesn't change their ways.

[JB White]

What would it take to get the American people to rebel?

The last straw for me would be allowing too many illegal Canadians ;)

[da gimp]

Ken, that is one question that I hope is never answered , my brother. Just what would it take for Canadians to rebel? You nearly lost the right to own any firearms, & I can remember when Le Front d'Liberation de Quebec was extremely active, much more so than any group here in the USA...................heck those guys made the Provo IRA boys seem like mere altar boys, cutting up in the church sanctuary after Mass...............

[Louis of PA]

Ken - Our economy, our culture and customs, our concepts of private property, our history and educational system, are all under assault by the leftists and their stooges in the news and entertainment media and by many in teaching.

The attacks are localized, often unreported and not analyzed, except on the better blog sites. As a result, we Americans do not grasp that it's coming from nearly every point on the compass, a little here, a little there, almost unnoticeable, in the manner of Fabian Socialism.

One major example is "Sustainable Development". It's penetrating here in the U.S. on the city and township level and is dressed in the robes of "Good town planning". Further investigation reveals that Sustainable Development is the public face of Agenda 21, a program devised by a European socialist at the United Nations to control populations, reduce consumption (especially in the west), diminish private property rights and to redistribute wealth to the poorer nations. An ultimate objective is to achieve world government, long the dream of the Marxists.

Agenda 21 is a perfect stealth program. We've found few township managers who know much about it, but that have signed on to implement it anyway, because Sustainable Development sounds "nice".

Here is the UN document, and if you read it in detail, you'll understand my concerns and those of the Tea Parties and other groups that have become aware. At one time, I wrote it off as one of those half-baked conpiracy theories, but then I looked at the actual UN document:

http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/index.shtml

We in the Tea Parties have been trying to make the townships aware, with varying success. Some communities have now rejected it, but the average manager simply does not have the time to delve into it as it deserves. And the first Bush actually signed onto it!

I don't know what it will take for Americans to 'revolt' in the sense you raise, but if anything triggers it, it could be Agenda 21.

Regards,
Louis of PA

[Art]

I really can't see a people living in a country in which a "poor" person owns a flatscreen lcd television, an air conditioner and an automobile rebelling. I really, really don't see a lot of old farts rebelling, frankly most of them (us?) aren't well enough organized or in good enough shape anyway.

Getting to Ken's point though, he missed two rebellions, the Whiskey Rebellion, during which for the first and only time a President of the United States led troops in the field against his own people and, the last real rebellion, which happened in Arkansas in 1957: That was the year the Supreme Court, ending a bit over eighty years of indifference, started getting serious about the 14th ammendment and ordered the schools in Little Rock, Arkansas integrated.

In a nutshell; Arkansas Gov. Orville Faubus, who actually had a reputation in the south as a sort of moderate liberal up to that time, but realizing his political future was on the line ordered the Arkansas National Guard to prevent the integration of Central High School in Little Rock. The guard was then actually deployed to prevent the "desegging" of Central High. When he did that he placed the State of Arikansas in active rebellion against the United States. Dwight Eisenhower immediately saw the gravity of the situation and took two momentus steps; he ordered the 101st Airborne Divison to Little Rock with orders to integrate the schools by force if necessary and he "Federalized" the Arkansas National Guard and ordered them back to their barracks. Faced with the possibility of a shootout between the 101st Ariborne and the Arkansas National Guard the Arkansas authorities blinked. Central High School was integrated by a few hand picked black kids escorted by United States Marshalls and the rest is history. It was a bit more involved than that but those are the "headlines."

Like I said above, I can't see a bunch of candy ass Americans rebelling against anything unless their "bennies" are cut off, a la Greece, and even they aren't really rebelling they just want their goodies back.

Hate to be cynical guys but that's just the way I see it

[Ken The Kanuck]

Mr Gimp, to be honest with you we Canadians are not very good at rebellion. Our history is Loyalist. As far as I know we have never had a successful rebellion, Louis Riel was the closest and he didn't fair too well. I doubt very much that we Canadians would or even could rebel today. First of all it is not in our nature (mind you the Quebec separatist besides the FLQ have been law abiding and accepted the results of the referendums even when they lost). And secondly in today's world with the information available to the government I believe that a rebellion wouldn't stand a chance in today's high tech. world.

But you know that your statement "You nearly lost the right to own any firearms". Just isn't correct. That has never happened.

I'm not too sure if rebellion is possible for us in North America (Canada and the US) because of the information and technology possessed by our governments.

KTK



Ken, that is one question that I hope is never answered , my brother. Just what would it take for Canadians to rebel? You nearly lost the right to own any firearms, & I can remember when Le Front d'Liberation de Quebec was extremely active, much more so than any group here in the USA...................heck those guys made the Provo IRA boys seem like mere altar boys, cutting up in the church sanctuary after Mass...............

[talucah]

I don't think that there will be a rebellion But we may have to kick a few States out of the Union. I hope that we could swap them for some Western Provinces.
Bob

[Marine A5 Sniper]

Americans are no where near a rebellion.

jt

[JB White]

That's because all half this country needs is another hollow promise and a swallow of Kool Aid to send them off the streets.

[da gimp]

[QUOTE=Ken The Kanuck;194957

But you know that your statement "You nearly lost the right to own any firearms". Just isn't correct. That has never happened.

I'm not too sure if rebellion is possible for us in North America (Canada and the US) because of the information and technology possessed by our governments.

KTK[/QUOTE]

With the establishment of the long gun registry, coupled with it's draconian anti-handgun laws, Canada was quickly sliding down the same slippery slope Australia had
several years before.

I'm very glad that the anti-firearm, anti-personel liberties/rights crowd seem to be losing in Canada now, hope that you guys can keep it up.

[phil evans]

rebellions or civil war can be initiated without the implements of war.
it just takes great courage to make the other side relenquish those implements.

if a despot is seated as president.
then that time has arrived.

[Art]

if a despot is seated as president.
then that time has arrived.

Everytime I think of despots I think of John Adams, one of the founding fathers. In 1798 he and his party passed the "Sedition Act of 1798" which made it a crime to say bad things about the president, the president's party, members of congress (a heavy majority of whom were Federalists just like the president) or any of their appointees. People were arrested and sent to prison for criticisms of the president that were much, much milder than most of the stuff on this forum, including a member of congress and some journalists. If the above quote were made in 1800 Mr. Evans would be subject to arrest for uttering it. There was no rebellion during the Adams administration. I suppose that since the act was passed partly to suppress rebellion it could be argued that it succeeded. Adams was sort of there when the first ammendment was adopted as part of the Bill of Rights. it sure didn't seem to stop him from absloutely raping it with the "Sedition Act."

[Art]

I was thinking about this a bit more, and I think one thing that could incite a rebellion would be for a President of the United States to refuse to leave office after two terms, losing a bid for re election or being impeached and convicted.

[RED]

The answer is... none of us know it, but the rebellion has already happened

I disagree with Art that the 1957 disagreement between Faubus and Eisenhower was a "rebellion.” Faubus was merely trying to prevent bloodshed and I suspect Ike wanted the same thing. The irony is that more people were injured and more constitutional rights were violated by the 101st Airborne than by either Faubus or the National Guard. For example, law abiding, God fearing, honest, American citizens, were denied entry into their own homes by bayonet wielding combat troops.

BTW my wife graduated from Central high in Little Rock in 1962. Today Central high is a National Historical Site whose last class (IIRC) graduated in the late ‘90s. By then the school had achieved true “integration.” (90% of the administration was black as were 95% of the students.) Yes we have come a long, long, way and greater things await us in the future. Just wait until the White House becomes the next Central High! By then we will have complete racial harmony and the “rebellion” will be over!

[PhillipM]

Like Art said earlier; when the checks quit coming from the govt

[Art]

The answer is... none of us know it, but the rebellion has already happened

I disagree with Art that the 1957 disagreement between Faubus and Eisenhower was a "rebellion.” Faubus was merely trying to prevent bloodshed and I suspect Ike wanted the same thing. The irony is that more people were injured and more constitutional rights were violated by the 101st Airborne than by either Faubus or the National Guard. For example, law abiding, God fearing, honest, American citizens, were denied entry into their own homes by bayonet wielding combat troops.

BTW my wife graduated from Central high in Little Rock in 1962. Today Central high is a National Historical Site whose last class (IIRC) graduated in the late ‘90s. By then the school had achieved true “integration.” (90% of the administration was black as were 95% of the students.) Yes we have come a long, long, way and greater things await us in the future. Just wait until the White House becomes the next Central High! By then we will have complete racial harmony and the “rebellion” will be over!

I suppose the difference in this case could come down to what was in Orville Faubus head and there are disagreements, legitimate ones about lintent.

Central High in Little Rock, which is a National Historical Site as Red said is is still open, one of the things I checked before posting, it has a student body of 2,200. The current principal is a gal named Nancy Rousseau.

[Ken The Kanuck]

Well if nothing else the world is a much different place from when we were kids. Some of the changes were right and some I am not too sure about. It seems to me that life (read society) is a pendulum and it is always swinging, often too far to the right or too far to the left. Seldom is it in balance where I suspect most of us are comfortable.

I kind of doubt that for all the ranting and ravings of some that an armed rebellion is possible with our present societies. But as some have pointed out not all rebellions require the use of arms.

Perhaps society has been in a state of rebellion for quite some time and I am just too dense to of noticed it.

KTK

[Art]

I got curious and checked on the current state of Little Rock Central High School:

Last year Little Rock Public High Schools produced 17 National Merit Finalists. Since Little Rock Central produced more National Merit Finalists over the last 10 years than any other high school in the state I would assume most of those came from Little Rock Central.

Last year the school producet 134 AP scholars, 77 Stevens Award Winners for Outstanding Achievement and had the highest number of Gifted and Talented students in the Little Rock District. In addition last years senior class recieved over $10,000.00 in academic university scholarships.

The drop out rate is 2.2%

I did a lot of work at a mostly white upper middle to upper class high school with kids and parents who had expectations that's about the same size as Little Rock Central and those numbers would be comparable with it's stats. The school does appear to be a magnet school though the term "magnet" dosen't actually appear in it's title and that could have something to do with it.

I don't know about Arkansas but when the schools were desegregated in Louisiana in, if I recall correctly 1968 the whites simply abandoned the schools en masse. "Segregation Academies" opented like dandylions in spring. I recall that the cheerleading squad at the high school I went to was abolished as was the drill team. The prom and homecoming dances were cancelled. The municipal swimming pool was closed, all in all quite an ugly scene. I, by the way, graduated from the last segregated class in my high school in 1966.

[jon_norstog]

Gettin' back to Ken's question, my own thought is that if the US were occupied by a foreign power, Americans would look for remnant units of the US military and join up with them. Some Americans would collaborate and some would resist, even on their own.

My cousin Knut was in the resistance in Norway in WWII. He was kind of a subsistencehunter before the invasion and he made himself scarce. And hooked up with a few like-minded souls. They didn't get much done until they hooked up with British intelligence. They got training, weapons, supplies, communications equipment and assignments from the Brits - Knut even got a mention in"the Man called Intrepid."

A succesful resistance involves a lot of organization, one way or another. That's the hard paRt, IMHO. Someone has to have the big picture, and stay ahead of the opposition/occupation forces. Would American civilians be able to pull something like that together?

jn

[da gimp]

In our little town, desegradation came in peacefully in the 50's. Maintenance on the "negro school" had quit being done years before,, knowing that it wouldsoon be abandoned.

Mid-Missouri embraced desegradation long before the larger cities in the northern & southern USA did.

If we were ever invaded, my guess is that many would resist & like the French in WWII, just as many, or more would collaberate with the enemy.

[JB White]

Ken's question had nothing to do with occupation and resistance, but revolting against our own bad government. Not many today realize how oppresive our government is turning. How many actually know of the liberties and freedoms which have been slowly legislated away? They've hoodwinked the younger ones into thinking things are the way they're supposed to be.
They don't mind being searched at airports, schools, and entering buildings etc. because they were brought up with it as part of the daily routine. So long as they are being told life is good they believe it is. They have nothing to correlate to.

No, the ones who would need to revolt won't understand there would be a reason for it and would likely resist those who did.

[Dan Wilson]

Dont forget the Whiskey rebellion!!
To this day its responsible for the oppression of the moonshiners!!

Also look at why Washington DC is not a state but the property of congress (it has to do with unpaid Vets, and attacks on the politicians :) )

As for what it takes for us to rebel again? Just say the word and I'm there

[Dan Wilson]

Its kind of funny that Fabus was in military opposition against Ike, since in WWII he was under both Patton and Ike as an intel officer for the 35th Inf!!

[Dan Wilson]

You could even take that farther, how many "conservative" parents send their kids to liberal colleges to be further brainwashed into socialism?
I refuse to send my kids to any institution that has any kind of liberal stance, I also refuse to fly anywhere as the gestapo run the airports.
Even my youngest one gets red in the face and gets so pissed he can hardly talk after watching the news or cspan for any length of time.

Its up to parents to teach their kids what freedoms and rights the constitution provides them because the commie mis-education system sure as hell wont.
But most of us just bitch about how bad things are but fail to teach our offspring the correct way (My two youngest were home schooled from when they were supposed to start high school, it cost the school system a butt-load of cash for each kid that leaves the system :) ).

[Ken The Kanuck]

Ken's question had nothing to do with occupation and resistance, but revolting against our own bad government. Not many today realize how oppresive our government is turning. How many actually know of the liberties and freedoms which have been slowly legislated away? They've hoodwinked the younger ones into thinking things are the way they're supposed to be.
They don't mind being searched at airports, schools, and entering buildings etc. because they were brought up with it as part of the daily routine. So long as they are being told life is good they believe it is. They have nothing to correlate to.

No, the ones who would need to revolt won't understand there would be a reason for it and would likely resist those who did.

You hit the nail on the head in regards to what I was thinking JB, but in all honesty as per normal around here the conversation has turned to some interesting points.

I do wonder how our grandfathers would react if they could be magically transported to our time, then subjected to some of the controls placed upon us and that we are so rapidly accepting?

It would appear that we have won all the wars we fought for our freedoms, yet are losing them.

But please guys don't stop with the history lessons they are mighty interesting, especially when you think that we are talking to folks who know those who were actually at places of historical importance such as The Central High. It doesn't get much closer than that. Sort of like me as a young boy being told by my grandfather of fighting in the Khyber Pass with the British Raj in the late 1800's.

KTK

[jon_norstog]

I guess I was thinking about a real rebellion vs. the usual case, Timothy McVeigh or Aryan Naions or the AIM Brothers doing an "action." 1776 we had the Continental Congress up and running, colonial and community militias, free communications and a cadre of seasoned military officers. And we got foreign help, eventually including a good part of the French Navy.

1861, the rebellion began when states voted to secede. Again, the apparatus of government was in place. A good portion of the U.S.military officer corps resigned and put on the gray. They were not lucky when it came to foreign assistance. The US put over a million men into uniform within a couple years and as they say, brought to bear overwhelming force.

Those were revolutions. I get around and I have heard all kinds of people talk about taking up arms against the US government. Left, right, indigenous, religious, it's all dreaming. People on this list, at least, I thought they all new what kind of firepower a company of Marines with air support can bring to bear ...

Armed resistance you're fighting the govt. on its own terms, what it does best. Americans, if they resist it will be more in the way of non-cooperation.

That's why I think the only case where Americans would actively resist or rebel in great numbers is if there was a foreign occupation and there was a remnant of the US military in the field fighting.

jn

[Griff Murphey]

The airport thing is an interesting problem. It definitely opens Americans to getting used to the "Your papers, pleeesse!" method of policing the masses. You can feel the atmosphere of intimidation and fear at the TSA check-in. Now you could do a pretty good screening just looking at people and evaluating their attitude, age, and ethnicity. But that crosses the line past political correctness and into the realm of common sense, neither of which can be done any more. The strip searching of infirm, crippled elderly is now accepted as the cost of "security." As Dr. Zhivago said, the new arrangement is "... More just..."

So how WOULD you guys do airport screenings?

[Guamsst]

You guys keep talking about the freedoms we have lost but we have also gained freedoms. As referenced by the sedition act. It's hard to tell where we stand in the balance and also where the line is between freedom and anarchy. I would hope that when the voting/legislative process was no longer capable of representing us we would cross the proverbial line in the sand and not before. Ofcourse that's said with the naive hope that most Americans could pull their heads out of their butts long enough to figure out what's going on.

The recent move to villainize American gun owners by the ATF/State Dept./Dept. of Justice is a perfect example of something that should be causing widespread protests and calls for resignation atleast to the level of Hillary and Holder. But, most people don't have a clue and if you explain it to them they only really care what will be on TV that night. What is being protested right now? RICH PEOPLE. They say they are occupying Wall Street. But it's really just a bunch of morons who aren't sure what they are protesting, but they know they don't like those evil rich people.

Many people would rebel quickly over less than you would think. they need a leader though. No one wants to be the first guy to start the rebellion. Most rebellions end with the death or imprisonment of their leader before they really get going.

I for one would draw the line at a flat removal of a right. The government would not try that. They only chip away at what hampers them while leaving enough rights to keep us more or less comfortable.