View Full Version : Reperations for slavery
John Sukey
12-21-2011, 10:00
Just found out one grandfather arrived at Ellis island on 24 june 1904. Guess he didn't own any slaves. But Lithuania was under the Russians at that time.
The other one got here on 5 May, 1905 from Poland so I guess he wasn't a slave owner either.;)
JB White
12-21-2011, 10:05
First one in my family arrived in 1908. Went back to fight for the Kaiser in 1914. Then they came over in two waves. The 1920's and the late 1940's. I don't recall seeing slaves in any of the old family photo albums.
You must pay if your White. Guilt by association.
JB White
12-21-2011, 10:09
You must pay if your White. Guilt by association.
I've got the wrong name for a Krauthead, eh? Danged clerks at Ellis Island :protest:
My family came over a little earlier. Irish side around 1850's and Polish side about 1897. They didn't own any slaves.
coppertales
12-22-2011, 05:09
My family came over here in the 1700s. No slaves as they settled in PA. I have no objection to giving money to former slaves, but, if you were not a slave, us working stiffs don't count, you don't get squat................chris3
Some of my family has been here for about 40k years or so.... don't think they owned any slaves, although there were some Cherokee slave owners. Others came around 1918 after losing the battle to the communists, I don;t think they owned any slaves. The other side of the family came just after the American civil war, definately no slave owners there.
To put things in perspective, in todays terms, you pretty much had to be one of the 1%'ers to have slaves. This arguement keeps coming up because the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons of the world think they can get something from it. As they see the opportunity waning they will make a push to keep it alive. It's racism for profit, racism against the white guy.....
Clark Howard
12-22-2011, 06:54
While you guys are busy establishing the fact that you and your family had nothing to do with slavery, the forces of evil have been busy giving homes and home loans to people of colour with no intention of requiring payments. I don't know about later years, but in 2006, 30,000 mortgages were closed that have never had the first payment applied. Fannie Mae and like agencies have already started the disbursement of "reparations". Surprise, you Lose! Regards, Clark
Am I the only one here that family owned slaves? My ancestor owned a couple of them back in the 1600s of all places on Long Island growing tobacco. When his slave wanted to marry my ancestors gave him his freedom, bought him a farm, built him a house, and gave him the tools he needed. Anyway that was a different time in history and to judge by today's standards is nothing but stupid.
As far as slavery goes black people were not the only people sold into slavery. Also if you check into history the first man to own a black slave was himself black.
JB White
12-22-2011, 08:41
While you guys are busy establishing the fact that you and your family had nothing to do with slavery, the forces of evil have been busy giving homes and home loans to people of colour with no intention of requiring payments. I don't know about later years, but in 2006, 30,000 mortgages were closed that have never had the first payment applied. Fannie Mae and like agencies have already started the disbursement of "reparations". Surprise, you Lose! Regards, Clark
Hmmmm, When you look at it that way....
Hah! At various points in history, my family had slaves and were slaves (though not on this continent) so I guess it's a wash for me.
While you guys are busy establishing the fact that you and your family had nothing to do with slavery, the forces of evil have been busy giving homes and home loans to people of colour with no intention of requiring payments. I don't know about later years, but in 2006, 30,000 mortgages were closed that have never had the first payment applied. Fannie Mae and like agencies have already started the disbursement of "reparations". Surprise, you Lose! Regards, Clark
Very true. I've always avoided bringing that aspect up as usually that one pushed people over the edge.
Am I the only one here that family owned slaves? My ancestor owned a couple of them back in the 1600s of all places on Long Island growing tobacco. When his slave wanted to marry my ancestors gave him his freedom, bought him a farm, built him a house, and gave him the tools he needed. Anyway that was a different time in history and to judge by today's standards is nothing but stupid.
As far as slavery goes black people were not the only people sold into slavery. Also if you check into history the first man to own a black slave was himself black.
Nope, my mother's family were slave owners living in southeast Texas, my father's were abolitionists living in New Orleans from the 1840s (yes there was an abolitionist movement in the south.) Interestingly over the over 100 years since the "Great Rebellion" or "War of Northern Aggression" depending on your view of history my mother's family became less racist and my father's became more so.
Slavery was/is an ancient economic tool though it was actually less pervasive than a lot of folks think, a bunch of ancient civilizations did not have slave based economies. Today there are a lot more places that practice chattel slavery than many realize.
jon_norstog
12-22-2011, 09:44
What President Lincoln said:
"Yet, if God wills that it (the war) continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said 'the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether'"
jn
If you do a little research on the "Pigford Settlements" you will find that it was/is being sold by black activists as "slave reparations.The U.S.census lists aprox.33,000 blacks as farmers,to date over 80,000 have filed for claims.Blacks were being told thru several venues that it was reparations and to file for it.The original case only involved about 400 odd black southern farmers.
Uh just a thought. Maybe the blacks should pay the country Reperations. Because if no slaves were brought into this country, the crime rate in the country would be reduced by 60%, Just sayin, Ray
John Sukey
12-22-2011, 11:10
BUT the "peculiar institution" is alive and well in many Arab countries, Asia, and of course, Africa.
PhillipM
12-22-2011, 11:25
My family has been here awhile. John McGregor born in 1736 Perthshire Scotland, died in 1797 in Anson, North Carolina. My great, great, great grandfather Willis was a slave owner...and a reverend. In 1850 he owned 9 slaves. Where should I send the check?
If you do a little research on the "Pigford Settlements" you will find that it was/is being sold by black activists as "slave reparations.The U.S.census lists aprox.33,000 blacks as farmers,to date over 80,000 have filed for claims.Blacks were being told thru several venues that it was reparations and to file for it.The original case only involved about 400 odd black southern farmers.
To me, the Pigford expansion is just another agriculture scam. Less damaging than the ethanol scam but more damaging than the scam perpetrated by rich guys like Brad Pitt who uses his hobby of beekeeping to soak the taxpayers for hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Some "black activists" hold out any program that benefits blacks disproportionately as some sort of reparations. While I see the expansion of Pigford as a scandal I don't see it as reparations. Reparations is writing every black man woman and child a check, possibly in perpetuity. One reason that's never been done is the political consequences are too awful to even think about so the "poverty pimps" continue to work around the edges and refer to anything like Pigford as reparations.
Oh, rayg, while blacks do commit disproportionately more crimes than whites the idea that 15% of the population commits 60% of the crimes seems more than a little bit off. Of course the black activists would say that's our fault to because if we hadn't actively oppressed them until 40 or 50 years ago we wouldn't have the crime problem. All of which goes to show you can't win on this with the aformentioned "poverty pimps."
Some "black activists" hold out any program that benefits blacks disproportionately as some sort of reparations. While I see the expansion of Pigford as a scandal I don't see it as reparations. Reparations is writing every black man woman and child a check, possibly in perpetuity. One reason that's never been done is the political consequences are too awful to even think about so the "poverty pimps" continue to work around the edges and refer to anything like Pigford as reparations.
"
One of the other side effects of the issuing of checks would be the fear of racism for profit would be over. A check is too symbolic of an end. No way they would take that chance.
JB White
12-22-2011, 01:16
Uh just a thought. Maybe the blacks should pay the country Reperations. Because if no slaves were brought into this country, the crime rate in the country would be reduced by 60%, Just sayin, Ray
Maybe we should charge them for steerage passage plus interest since they never paid? Might work out that nobody OWES anybody anything today. Just sayin' :)
6thMARDIV
12-22-2011, 01:22
Different branches of my family settled here in 'OL Virginia as far back as the 1600's. A few owned slaves. Most, but not all had sold their slaves by the 1850's. I feel no remorse for it in any way, shape or form. It wasn't me.
They have gotten more than their due, if you don't believe me, just visit any Walmart on the 1st of the month.
Ken The Kanuck
12-22-2011, 01:35
When will the welfare cheques get paid back?
KTK
When you consider the laws that have been passed,the tax money spent,the numbers of people forcefully hired in the name of EEO over the last fifty years I'd say somebody collected reparations.The fact that some couldn't make a go of it doesn't alter the fact they weren't smart enough to take advantage of opportunities open to them instead of waiting around for somebody to hand them a check big enough to buy new Cadillacs for the rest of their life.
Louis of PA
12-22-2011, 03:00
One of my children has in a home in Virginia that at one time was owned by a black slave holder. She has actually met descendents of some of those slaves. In that area, she says race relations are fine these days. No Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton types.
seagoatami
12-22-2011, 03:53
One of my ancestors came to this country from England as an endentured servant , was that or the death penalty. he served two terms at it but then bought his way free. Owned a 200 acre farm in Virginia (which he bought with his own money) OK, having said that , where do I go to collect his reparations???
While you guys are busy establishing the fact that you and your family had nothing to do with slavery, the forces of evil have been busy giving homes and home loans to people of colour with no intention of requiring payments. I don't know about later years, but in 2006, 30,000 mortgages were closed that have never had the first payment applied. Fannie Mae and like agencies have already started the disbursement of "reparations". Surprise, you Lose! Regards, Clark
One of my ancestors came to this country from England as an endentured servant , was that or the death penalty. he served two terms at it but then bought his way free. Owned a 200 acre farm in Virginia (which he bought with his own money) OK, having said that , where do I go to collect his reparations???
Indentured servitude was almost always a consensual financial contract between two parties for a limited amount of time and wasn't close to slavery. Indentured sevanthood was either a method of getting somewhere you wanted to go that you couldn't afford yourself (a lot of people came to this country by Indenturing that is selling their labor for a fixed amount of time in exchange for passage,) a way of working off a debt, or in the case of your ancestor a form of clemency for a crime, which in his case I'm sure he requested and was very, very glad to get.
I have some of the slave deeds from my mother's family one reads describing the propert ".....a copper colored girl named Polly about 7 years of age, a slave for life." Like I said, not the same thing at all.
I heard on the History Channel that owners of Indentured Servants treated them badly when the got to the end of their 7 year obligation so they would run away. If they were caught they got another 7years of being an Indentured Servant.
Dan Wilson
12-22-2011, 04:54
After 24 plus years in the military, I am not sure how to classify it, either as indenture or slavery but many a time when it seemed like both.
DRAGONFLYDF
12-22-2011, 05:35
I'll kick in to help buy a ticket for any that want to go back to africa................................
Rick
An indentured servant was subject to corporal punishment but so were regular servants, especially domestics. They also couldn't legally marry until the contract was satisfactorily completed. Breaking the contract by running away did extend it. The normal terms of indenture were three or seven years. I understand the majority colonists after the mid 17th century were in fact indentured servants or their descendants, in fact my mother's ancestors who reputedly came from Sheffield about 1700 were almost surely indentured servants. In addition to indentured servants children were often sold into apprenticeships. In fact Benjamin Franklin learned printing as one of these child apprentices. The main justifiction for indentured servitude was the lack of labor for farms and businesses in the British colonies. A person who had the money for the very expensive passage to the "New World" could easily start up his own farm or business. A person in the UK who was an ordinary worker had no option except to indenture himself, that is sell his or her labor for a fixed amount of time. Oh, speaking of extending the term of indenture, if an indentured woman became pregnant which reduced the value of her labor and increased the cost of her maintenance, her indenture was extended by the length of her pregnancy.
Interestingly, these contracts could be very specific. They seem to have always included requirements for the buyer of the contract relating to food and lodging. For example they invariably called for meat in the diet of the servant to prevent the buyer of the contract from putting a worker on bread and water.
To get to America the person wishing to go usually initially indentured him or herself to the captain providing passage and after arrival the captain sold off the contracts and recovered his money.
Dan
I understand that legally military service is considered a form of indenture that is excluded from the conventions and laws that that are supposed to outlaw not only slavery but peonage and indentured servitude. You're right though, being in the military sure could seem like slavery in the old days.
Did you hear that the Indentured Servants complained about having to eat lobsters quite often? A guy can get sick of anything but these guys would roll in their graves if they knew how much a Lobster dinner costs today.
holdover
12-22-2011, 06:40
I'm all for paying all slaves from prior to 1865 in this country who are still alive. I am not for giving a dime to their relatives. The price of freeing them was paid long ago with the blood of Ameicians between 1861-1865. They even had the opportunity to return to their homeland, but few did. "that's my stand"
My family came to America from Austro-Hungarian Europe in the Mid 1890's, and I doubt if they owned any slaves. But my wife's family owned slaves in Maryland; from the late 1700's to the 1850's. She said," if the NAACP would like to contact any of her ancestor's to pay . They are located in meny cemetaries through-out Carrol and Arundel and Baltimore counties.
cplnorton
12-22-2011, 08:01
I'll kick in to help buy a ticket for any that want to go back to africa................................
lol, that is exactly what I was thinking. My Great-Grandpa owned 2 slaves in Kentucky leading up till the Civil War. If any of their descendants want to go back to Africa, where they can starve, get aids, and then be chased down and ate by a lion all in one day. I will be more than happy to provide a return ticket. :)
Michaelp
12-22-2011, 08:04
I apparently had a great great grandfather and some other ancestors die at Andersonville.
One made it home but never really recovered.
Can I claim credit for that?
Also for the 37 years I did civil service watching various affirmative action hirings and promotions?
Prior to the Revolutionary War many Irish came to this country listed as "indentured servants" on ships manifests.In reality they came in chains as prisoners of the crown deported here as troublemakers into indentured slavery in truth.My 5th great grandfather was one of them.When he hit the docks in Philidelphia he took off for the frontier.There was a reward published for his return in a Philidelphia paper of the day.His name was John O'Reiordan.
A little historical context: In the 1960's, black activists claimed that they were entitled to money from the government in perpetuity. At least, that's what they told the black who would listen and cheer them on. And, yes, they were serious. One even name a figure back then. He wanted $50K a year from government coffers to cover the cost of his living expenses. And, an equal amount, for his children and the mother of his children.
The cheep way out of this crap is all that can prove their heritage was slave related, pay them 1 million each. The catch is they must leave the country if they take the money and can return to the US. Them or none of their offspring. That will take care of a big problem this country has and get rid of a lot of dummycrap voters to boot. I’m sick of hearing about this crap. You owe me, give me, give me, give me. No one ever gave me a damn thing in life and I damn glad of it. I owe no one out side of this house.
John Peeff
12-23-2011, 12:07
How did the slaves get here? Most were Bought or traded for from their own countrymen. Slavery was a way of life on the African continent for generations before the white man came.Although I think any kind of human slavery is an immoral, American blacks should thank God their ancesters were brought here as slaves or else they would be living in such great places as Uganda, Rawanda, Zibawbe,Congo, etc. I can't buy in to the reparations thing, no guilt here.
Oh, rayg, while blacks do commit disproportionately more crimes than whites the idea that 15% of the population commits 60% of the crimes seems more than a little bit off. Of course the black activists would say that's our fault to because if we hadn't actively oppressed them until 40 or 50 years ago we wouldn't have the crime problem. All of which goes to show you can't win on this with the aformentioned "poverty pimps."
Art I had read recently that 60% of the jail population were black folks. That's were I came up with that figure. That would seem to indicate serious or repeat criminal behavior. That's a hugh cost to the taxpayers for only 15% of the population that's why I jokenily suggested they pay reperations. I'm sure there may be some descripencies with those stats but in in either case I'm sure it's still a huge disproportionate to the 15% population. Ray
Marine A5 Sniper
12-23-2011, 07:19
We taxpayers gave EVERY Negro farmer in the US a minimum of $72,000 just a couple of years ago. They want more?
jt
JB White
12-23-2011, 10:13
Indentured seritude is not dead in this country. I know for a fact the Polish are still operating on that principle. Not only in construction and maid services, but I knew of one young gal who modeled for an agency for three years without pay. She even made the covers of a few well known publications. I'm sure other groups are doing the same or similar. The servants see no wrong in it as it benefits them in the long run.
The Koreans work it differently. Their churches sponsor a family and the local network helps set then up in a business. Once established, they in turn become part of the network and continue to assisst in sponsoring others through the church. They don't work for free but the commitment and payout to the program can be long term.
John L. Lucci
12-23-2011, 11:56
Just found out one grandfather arrived at Ellis island on 24 june 1904. Guess he didn't own any slaves. But Lithuania was under the Russians at that time.
The other one got here on 5 May, 1905 from Poland so I guess he wasn't a slave owner either.;)
Hummn! I wonder if I can get some reparations from the Italian government on the behalf of the Roman Empire. I'm sure I had ancestors who were enslaved at least ah half dozen times since before Rome fell.. :icon_rolleyes: It makes as much sense as giving the current crop of blacks money for the trials of their long dead ancestors.
Conductor
12-24-2011, 05:33
My great-grandfather on my father's side fought for the Union and ended up with a lung infection that eventually killed him. So does this mean that the descendents of former slavesshould pay ME? I think it does!
John Sukey
12-24-2011, 01:39
Actualy some ex slaves were returned to Africa by abolitionists to form Liberia. So what did they do after arriving,? they went into the slave catching business!
The only reason Australia was founded was because after we got our independnce, England had to have somewhere to send all the folks from Newgate and the Clink prisons.
Eric Holder will decide who pays and how much....!
Art I had read recently that 60% of the jail population were black folks. That's were I came up with that figure. That would seem to indicate serious or repeat criminal behavior. That's a hugh cost to the taxpayers for only 15% of the population that's why I jokenily suggested they pay reperations. I'm sure there may be some descripencies with those stats but in in either case I'm sure it's still a huge disproportionate to the 15% population. Ray
Blacks are disproportionately represented in the prison population. There are a lot of reasons for it and of course one of them is not only that they commit disproportionatly more crimes, but the higher recidivism rate and the type of crimes committed result in a conviction resulting in jail time. Reminds me of a football official I heard interviewed many years ago who was asked why the Oakland Raiders were the most penalized team in the NFL. The ref said "because they foul more."
Blacks are about 13% of the total U.S. Population. The figures for people actually in custody in some form (includes everything from municipal and county lock ups up to maximum security prisons) in the US for 2009, the last year for which I could find records are:
Incarcerated males - 2,096,300
Blacks - 841,000 = 46%
Whites - 693,000
Hispanics - 442,000
Incarcerated females - 201,200
Whites - 92,100
Blacks - 64,800 = 47%
Hispanics - 32,300
I had thought the black population in "stir" was about 40%-45% so I was off a bit on the low side.
This country has more people in prison by number and percentage of the population than any other place on the planet, though Russia is in the ballpark. Over 2 1/4 million people is a LOT of folks in the slammer.
Marine A5 Sniper
12-24-2011, 04:00
The idea that I should pay for something some long dead person did is absurd on its face. Federal tax dollars are our money, not "free" money from above.
jt
PhillipM
12-24-2011, 04:34
Blacks are disproportionately represented in the prison population. There are a lot of reasons for it and of course one of them is not only that they commit disproportionatly more crimes, but the higher recidivism rate and the type of crimes committed result in a conviction resulting in jail time. Reminds me of a football official I heard interviewed many years ago who was asked why the Oakland Raiders were the most penalized team in the NFL. The ref said "because they foul more."
Blacks are about 13% of the total U.S. Population. The figures for people actually in custody in some form (includes everything from municipal and county lock ups up to maximum security prisons) in the US for 2009, the last year for which I could find records are:
Incarcerated males - 2,096,300
Blacks - 841,000 = 46%
Whites - 693,000
Hispanics - 442,000
Incarcerated females - 201,200
Whites - 92,100
Blacks - 64,800 = 47%
Hispanics - 32,300
I had thought the black population in "stir" was about 40%-45% so I was off a bit on the low side.
This country has more people in prison by number and percentage of the population than any other place on the planet, though Russia is in the ballpark. Over 2 1/4 million people is a LOT of folks in the slammer.
I think if you scratch deeper you'll discover "custody of some form" includes parole, probation, and house arrest. If so as far as costs go, those that are not in lockup have to pay a monthly fee to the parole officer to cover their expense.
A friend of mine used to work for the Dept of Corrections. He said that one in 30 people in Mississippi are under the care of the DOC including parole, probation, and house arrest. I don't know how many more are in county lockup that are not state prisoners or how many are in Federal prison.
As far as drug addicts go he quoted a circuit judge who read a study that shows 95% of drug addicts wind up either dead or in prison. Rehab doesn't seem to have a good track record.
Marine A5 Sniper
12-24-2011, 05:01
Here in NC, I can check your NC criminal history online as I interview you for a job, thanks to our Attorney General. Well over 50% of the people I have interviewed in the past ten years had NC felony convictions. All but one lied about that little fact during the interview. One guy had 7 felony convictions for theft and drugs. I didn't hire him, but the company next door to me did. Within a month, he had stolen my car, only to be caught in it in Goldsboro. He was never prosecuted for stealing my car, and I had to pay $880 to get it out of storage (the DA said she couldn't prove he stole it). The vast majority of those I interviewed were Caucasians. It is very difficult to find employees here who do not have criminal records. I presume the same situation exists everywhere.
Right now thefts are out of control around here. You can go shopping and return home to find your AC unit gone, or your mower, or just about anything you can imagine. They stole my neighbors riding mower when he left it running in the front yard and went inside for water, and returned to find it missing. He thought I took it for a joke. He was mistaken. The ones they catch, they give probation.
The local salvage yard had so many farm implements (hundreds) sold for junk iron this year (some were brand new, all were probably stolen), they had a week long fire sale on farm implements. Most won't be missed until next spring.
I think things will get much worse.
jt
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