View Full Version : Anybody like American Pioneer Powder in Trapdoors?
Seems like one of the "friendliest" black powders, from my reading.
Anyone got any experience shooting it in Trapdoor Springfields?
Any load data or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
I do not know about cartridge guns but for muzzle loaders you use equal volume (not wieght). Now in ML's they always say ball must be tight on top of powder, were 45-70 cases filled to capacity?
In a trapdoor I was using American Pioneer 2f under a 405 grain cast bullet. 60 grains (by volume measure) filled the case enough to get some compression. Short to midrange groups were fine from an 1884 considering my eyes had a hard time with the sights. I'm still using that same load in a 45-70 H&R and it's doing great.
I tried a few rounds today. 55 gr by weight under 405gr bullet. Accuracy was below average, and the round were hard to chamber, I guess from the crud buildup.
NOT impressed so far. I'll try again.
If you're using bullet lube with APP that might be where the crud buildup in the barrel is coming from. Try using unlubed bullets like the manufacturer calls for. I can normally get anywhere from 25 - 30 shots off before accuracy starts to suffer. That includes larger cases and charges with the 577 Snider.
I recall getting fouling from light charges in the Martini when using 'softball' loads. Not enough pressure in the breech to reliably expand the case and seal the chamber. If you're getting blowback and fouling in the chamber then definitely increase the charge.
APP is normally great as far as fouling goes. However it can be a finickey powder when it comes to working up loads. To much one way or the other can often lead to inconsistent velocities. Goex is actually much more friendly in that regard in spite of the bigger mess and having to clean immediately.
There are good powders on the market but not one is what we might call perfect.
The AP stuff is ascorbic acid (vitamin C) based and is only about 70% to 90% the strength of black powder. It performs differently and tends to be erratic.
Still, I keep some 2F around for plinking with my muzzleloaders. If I care about hitting my target, though, with power and precision, I use black.
Are you using a long drop tube?
I don't think a drop tube would make much difference. It's a straight walled case that a light tap and compression by the bullet should take care of. At 60gr measured of APP there is no wadding or filler needed in a 45-70. Perhaps a waxed card between powder and bullet but that's about it.
APP website calls for 54gr by weight. That fills the case to 0.375" from the top, so I get about 0.25" compression with a 2.54" COL.
I get a bit of blowback crud on the case outer wall, so I think I'll try going up maybe 1gr.
I do not use bullet lube - just a lead bullet.
I cleaned the rifle, and now the rounds chamber easily ( I had fired prolly 30-40 rounds of smokeless without cleaning - don't know if that was causing the tight chamber.)
Now that I think about it, its was prolly the crud blowback lining the chamber wall.
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