Our Tax Dollars at Work

[FLATLOCK]

At a gun show yesterday while standing at a dealers tables of military collectables , parts , and a few USGI rifles , a guy walked up and asked the dealer if he had a lanyard ring for a S&W Victory model . The dealer proceeded to lift a heavy tub full of demilled Victory models and a few Colt Commando revolvers from under one of the tables . All had been torch cut in half from the top strap thru the trigger guard , and were covered in grease and dirt . The side plates , lanyard rings , triggers , hammers , and other small parts were still there . No grips on anything I seen . All I saw were the rear halves , no cylinders or barrels in the tub . After the dealer had gotton a lanyard ring for the buyer , I asked if I could look at some of the demills . The very first demilled Victory model that I picked up was actually a pre Victory . The serial number was 986971 . It was factory marked with PROPERTY OF US NAVY on the side , and showed very little use . The back strap , as well as what was left of the rest of it showed a strong 98-99% of what looked like the original finish . There was part of a wired tag attached to the lanyard ring , but not enough left to give any information . I then spotted the rear half of what was before the torch cut , a near mint Colt Commando . It was marked on the back strap AEC ORNL Along with US on the but and the number 170 . If my research is correct on these markings , this stands for ATOMIC ENERGY COMMISSION OAK RIDGE NATIONAL LABORATORY . I would have been very happy to have had these revolvers in my collection , and would have been glad to pay the current value for each . This really disturbs me to see history being destroyed . Most of the demilled revolvers appeared to have been in very good condition , some showed use , and others , as the two mentioned , looked close to mint condition before demill . Hard to tell when this was done , but what a waste . I didnt get to look at them all , but these two just caught my attention .

[da gimp]

The Clintons rushed a bunch of fine firearms through Cap'n Crunch, including an extremely nice Singer 1911A1, the guys thjat had to do it were sick......

[Art]

The government apparently decided long ago that they would not surplus out handguns for sale throught the DCM, CMP or anyone else. Non military Federally owned (civil service) firearms, like the Atomic Energy Commission revolver you mentioned are all scrapped, no exceptions and always have been as far as I know. Never seen a surplussed out DEA, FBI or Secret Service firearm? There's a reason for that. I know of several Feds who asked to purchase their service sidearms and were told "not no but hell no." As I said on a previous post when the Border Partol bought new rifles to replace their Remington Model 81 Woodmasters in the mid 1960s the Woodsmasters were all torched; yep, laid across saw horses and cut right through the reciever and bolt with a torch right behind the old Border Patrol gunsmithing shop. Those rifles ranged in condition from very good to excellent. My last service revolver was a privately purchased 3" Model 19 which I found was quite valuable now because only 500 were made. That isn't actually correct, only 500 were made for commercial sale. A lot of them were made on a government contract issued to various Treasury agencies and once out of service they were all torched too. If its a Federally owned handgun, military or civil service it's going to be destroyed once its declared obsolete and that goes for Fed civilian long arms as well.

One of my favorite stories with regard to this was a Fed agent who had is govt. owned S&W 2" barrel Model 10 stolen in a burglary. Well he had to pay for it, cost him less than $100.00 in the late 1960s. Well a couple of years later the revolver was recovered and he went to his boss and said he wanted his revolver. He was told it wasn't his revolver it belonged to the United States. His response was "this wasn't a fine, I bought that revolver and I want it." After meditating on the situation his agency wrote him a check for a full refund of the money he paid for the revolver rather than give it to him.

Fortunately state agencies are not always so squeemish about pistols and revolvers. J&G Sales always seems to have a lot of surplussed out police sidearms. The Texas Department of Public Safety surplussed out all of their Model 28 Smith & Wesson revolvers when the Highway Patrol went to auto pistols. The revolver on my avatar is my former DPS Highway Patrol Model 28 with the DPS number still on the left side of the frame. It's one of my prized possessions.

Oh, Gimp, you're assuming the people scrapping these weapons are gun guys, not necessarily and probably not. Even people who work with firearms for a living are not always enthusiasts. I worked with a lot of people who carried a gun for a living who had no interest in the weapons they carried except as a working tool.

[joem]

And after all it's only tax payer money so why should try to save us any MONEY???!!!

[Art]

And after all it's only tax payer money so why should try to save us any MONEY???!!!

The government is never going to be cost efficient. As most of you know, before 1965 most of our coinage was silver, dollars, half dollars, quarters and dimes. In 1963 the Treasury Department came up with the idea of starting to issue "Peace Dollars," that is the silver dollars issued from 1921-1936, really beautiful coins. In early 1965 they actually minted about 200,000 of these coins and then, before they were issued, the Johnson administration decided they were going to stop backing U.S. money with silver and melted them all. Melting them didn't cost much, the guys at the mint were on the clock anyway but selling them off for say $10.00 a piece to collectors would have probably made the Treasury a tidy sum. I used to be a reasonably serious coin collector, mostly of U.S. dollar coins and I would have loved to have had one of those to complete my Peace Dollar collection.

It's the same with scrapped firearms. They served their purpose, some for many many years and are sold for the scrap price when the government feels that they got their use out of them so there isn't an actual loss. Now they could make a heck of a lot more money selling them intact but for P.C. reasons haven't in a very long time with military handguns and from what I know never have with civil service handguns. Most of the USGI gun parts we buy, at least until recently, were actually sold off by Uncle Sam at the scrap price but since they weren't demilled firearms were resaleable for their intended purpose. It should be noted that these aren't the only items that the Feds scraps instead of selling off and the coins I mentioned above are only one example. They don't actually lose money but it's nothing compared to what they could make selling stuff like thes revolvers. My point was it's nothing new and has been going on for a long, long time.

Something that really makes me weep was the incredible wastage, and not just of firearms, right after WWII. My old daddy told me that when the war ended the SeaBees at Samar destroyed all of their heavy equipment, much of it by destroying the engines and transmissions with thermite grenades. He said millions, perhaps billions of dollars worth of construction equipment, vehicles and other gear was destroyed and left in the P.I. on the direct orders of the theatre commander. I asked why we didn't leave it for the Philippinos if we didn't want to take it home and his answer was some version of "I just do 'em I don't explain 'em." As far as firearms go an awful lot ot them were thrown into the sea on the way back to the states. The government didn't even get the scrap steel money for those.

[dsk]

Apparently everyone did it, not just the US government. At the end of WW2 the Brits buried twenty brand-new Spitfires (still in their shipping crates) in Burma. Fortunately some guy just found them and is awaiting permission to get them dug up and shipped back home to the UK:

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/04/17/buried-treasure-world-war-ii-spitfires-to-be-unearthed-in-burma/?hpt=hp_t3

[Johnny P]

LBJ stopped the sale of handguns through the NRA/DCM in 1968. I had just received a Ruger Mark I, and my wife had a High Standard ready to be shipped when LBJ pulled the plug.

http://i40.tinypic.com/sy7bcx.jpg

[Hefights]

Great post and follow ups! Really interesting, really sad, but interesting. I know there are some reasons why this kind of waste takes place, but I will never agree with it.

[FLATLOCK]

Thanks to all for your response to my posting . I suppose that some day all of the old WWII era handguns still in the government inventories will be done away with in some way or another , If any are still left anywhere . Thanks Again !

[Gatofeo]

I weep when I recall hearing that tens of thousands of Smith & Wesson Model 15 Combat Masterpiece .38 Special revolvers, issued to the U.S. Air Force in 2 and 4" barrels, were cut up with a torch and scrapped.
I was a USAF Security Policeman from 1975 to 1979. Everyone who carried the Model 15 loved it. The ammo was underpowered, but the revolver itself was amazingly accurate, light on the belt, utterly reliable and easy to maintain.
I saw a few sergeants who, qualifying with 100 rounds of factory 148 gr. wadcutter loads, would put all 100 rounds into a silhouette target's chest in one ragged hole. The hole could be covered with your palm.
The Model 15's accuracy promoted fine marksmanship. Yes, the issue ammo was underpowered: 130 gr. full metal jacket bullet at 750 fps from a 4" barrel. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, somewhat more powerful ammo began to be issued.
And all those Model 15s were cut up with a torch or crushed. Makes me ill.
I had a Model 15 issued to me in Panama that had an action smoother than glass. One early morning, out of sight of the others, I removed the sideplate and found that all parts had been polished to a smooth finish.
That revolver was an early Model 15, with a set screw that came through the back of the trigger guard for the trigger to rest against. It was like-new. The action was probably smoothed up in the armory for an officer, or someone on the duty pistol shooting team.
Crushed or cut in half.
Revolvers like it would bring $1,000 or more today, especially with the US AIR FORCE stamp on the left side of the frame, above the trigger guard.
This country could sell a LOT of military surplus directly to the public, earn some real money for the Treasury, and promote better will from its citizens. Instead, we destroy surplus or obsolete items, or sell them to big contractors who ask ridiculous prices for what they get.
I weep when I think of that old Model 15 I had in Panama, with the smoothest action I've ever encountered on a K-frame Smith & Wesson, converted into a lump of rust and sold for scrap.

[Gatofeo]

I weep when I recall hearing that tens of thousands of Smith & Wesson Model 15 Combat Masterpiece .38 Special revolvers, issued to the U.S. Air Force in 2 and 4" barrels, were cut up with a torch and scrapped.
I was a USAF Security Policeman from 1975 to 1979. Everyone who carried the Model 15 loved it. The ammo was underpowered, but the revolver itself was amazingly accurate, light on the belt, utterly reliable and easy to maintain.
I saw a few sergeants who, qualifying with 100 rounds of factory 148 gr. wadcutter loads, would put all 100 rounds into a silhouette target's chest in one ragged hole. The hole could be covered with your palm.
The Model 15's accuracy promoted fine marksmanship. Yes, the issue ammo was underpowered: 130 gr. full metal jacket bullet at 750 fps from a 4" barrel. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, somewhat more powerful ammo began to be issued.
And all those Model 15s were cut up with a torch or crushed. Makes me ill.
I had a Model 15 issued to me in Panama that had an action smoother than glass. One early morning, out of sight of the others, I removed the sideplate and found that all parts had been polished to a smooth finish.
That revolver was an early Model 15, with a set screw that came through the back of the trigger guard for the trigger to rest against. It was like-new. The action was probably smoothed up in the armory for an officer, or someone on the duty pistol shooting team.
Crushed or cut in half.
Revolvers like it would bring $1,000 or more today, especially with the US AIR FORCE stamp on the left side of the frame, above the trigger guard.
This country could sell a LOT of military surplus directly to the public, earn some real money for the Treasury, and promote better will from its citizens. Instead, we destroy surplus or obsolete items, or sell them to big contractors who ask ridiculous prices for what they get.
I weep when I think of that old Model 15 I had in Panama, with the smoothest action I've ever encountered on a K-frame Smith & Wesson, converted into a lump of rust and sold for scrap.