Is this normal?

[psteinmayer]

I did some shooting with my Type 99 ( pictures previously posted in this forum as "My Type 99 Arisakas") yesterday. The rifle fired alright, and I put a few in the black at 100 yards. I did notice that the forward part of the stock, from the barrel band/monopod mount forward, as well as the upper stock section slid forward with each shot. Also, the sight elevation moved (with the sight folded down). Investigation revealed that the lower stock was in two pieces, with the joint hidden by the barrel band. Is the stock normally in two pieces or has this stock been cut? I can't imagine that it cracked or broke off, since it would be across the grain of the wood. If this is normally how the stock is on the Type 99, then how do I prevent things from moving when I am shooting???? I appreciate any and all advice! Thanks

Paul

[dave]

You have what collectors call a "duffle bag" cut stock. GI's cut them down to make the package shorter thru the mails, (some maybe to get in their duffle bag?). Very common with European bring backs, not so much with jap stuff. Repair is easy, several different methods have been suggested.

[JimF]

What series is your rifle?
Separate forends are the NORM on some series! (Nagoya Series 10, for instance) --Jim

[Guamsst]

What series is your rifle?
Separate forends are the NORM on some series! (Nagoya Series 10, for instance) --Jim

He said it slid forward though and I thought factory cuts were only on rifles with welded front bands?

[JimF]

He said it slid forward though and I thought factory cuts were only on rifles with welded front bands?

You are correct, Guamsst . . . .

I'm now thinking it is a "duffle-cut" rifle. --Jim

[Guamsst]

Duffel cuts are common on any milsurp rifle of WW2 and earlier. I even know of one Duffel cut M1 Carbine. Turns out sailors bags are even shorter than normal. Guy picked it up in the water during the Okinawa invasion and smuggled it home but had to cut the butt down a couple of inches to fit it in his bag.

[dave]

I know things were different during WW11 and later years, and even some areas in WW11. When I shipped home from Korea my bag was inspected and then sealed, I did not get to open it until on the ship. During WW11 all you needed were papers saying you could take it. I purcahse a bring back K98k from a fellow worked and it had a duffle cut but was shipped home in a cardboard tube that held 75m/m tank rounds. It even had a walnut upper and a laminate stock. He said the tank crew all packed and shipped there rifle home to-gether, he must have picked up the wrong one!
As for the 'duffle cut' ---The stock, with bayo lug on is 39 2/4" take the bayo off and its 37 3/4", the barreled action is 32". Anyone have a WW11 duffle bag? Do some measuring!
I am not saying they were not cut for a bag (5"?) but they were also cut for other containers.

[Guamsst]

Having used duffel bags for gunshows, it isn't a matter of just getting it in there. Part of it is making it fit without it looking like there is a gun in your bag. No, I don't duffel cut for gunshows, just saying when I use duffel bags, they are really a clumsy fit.

As to inspections, I have heard accounts from both Korea and WW2 of people who had ZERO inspection of their personal items. One guy who wrote a book about pacific tanks threw his souvenirs overboard and when they got to the port, they were lined up on the beach and told to empty their bags. He said everyone buried their contraband in the sand then the inspector glanced at their belongings and left. Then everyone dug up their contraband and left.

A friend who was in Korea got put in a hip/leg cast. He put an M3 greasgun down his cast and then chickened out as he got to customs. They told him so many stories he was afraid they would Xray the cast. He dumped the M3 in the amnesty bin and then as he went through customs all they did was say "welcome home"....DOH!!!

I almost got in a fight in Saudi because when I put my bags on the counter the Saudi inspector pushed them back off and told me to go. Problem was, he didn't want to do anymore inspections and I couldn't get a grip on my bags because he kept pushing them back off the counter. I had to laugh at the idea that I could not force this guy to even let me set my bags on the counter.

[psteinmayer]

What series is your rifle?
Separate forends are the NORM on some series! (Nagoya Series 10, for instance) --Jim

Arsenal is Toyo Kogyo, Series is 31.

[psteinmayer]

You have what collectors call a "duffle bag" cut stock. GI's cut them down to make the package shorter thru the mails, (some maybe to get in their duffle bag?). Very common with European bring backs, not so much with jap stuff. Repair is easy, several different methods have been suggested.

That makes perfect sense since it looks like it has been sawn. What is the best way to repairl it?

[psteinmayer]

I remember when I returned from deployment on the USS Ranger... after each deployment (I made 3), they did customes inspections before we pulled into home port, and we all just hid our stuff somewhere. Then, when we pulled in, they never checked our sea bags!

[Deano41]

That makes perfect sense since it looks like it has been sawn. What is the best way to repairl it?

Check your PM's

[Guamsst]

I would try a wood dowel in the cleaning rod hole with a little wood glue. I am sure others have better more complex methods. Or, just use duct tape.

[dave]

I have never done a Jap rifle, have done several German. The cut off piece is much shorter on the German. I have drilled the cleaning hole on both stock and forend as large as possible for a couple inches in depth, make the hole same as a standrd size doll rod, cut the doll rod to length and glue the ends to-gether, leaving a slight crack for the saw cut, which has already been coated with glue. Use an epoxy of some sort. Be sure the barrel channel is lined up on both pieces. You can but "pegs" at any wood work store that have gooves in them to hold the glue, they come in several dia. and lengths. After dry you have to redrill the cleaning rod hole. Extension drills are sold, may not be long enough for a jap. I had one made at work, years ago, a drill bit welded to a rod.
Another method would be to find 2-two inch screws and cut the heads off. Must be long enough to have threads the whole length, metal screws work good as they are same dia the whole length. Drill pilot hole on each side of cleaning rod hole and screw the screw into main stock about 1/2 length of screw or about an inch. With stock on the action, slide the forend down till it contacks the scews sticking out, line everything up and tap the forend to mark. Drill forend holes slightly larger then the screws, so they slip in. Use epoxy in holes and to fill saw cut and slip forend down to dry.
As you will be working with the barrel in the stock wrap the area with a layer of seran wrap to keep from glueing barrel to stock!
If this is clear as mud, come back and ask questions.

[psteinmayer]

Thanks so very much for the suggestions! I might use the Duct Tape, LOL! I disassembled the rifle tonight... Can't quite figure out yet how to get the front band/bayonet mount past the front sight, but I guess I don't really need to at this point... I will post some before and after pictures of the repair job!

Paul

[Deano41]

Turn the front band upside down, where the flat bottom of the band matches the top of the front sight guards. If it's a real early model, the front sight guards might be too high, and the front band won't pass over the sight.

Oops, just checked the book. The series 31 does have the higher front sight. So forget about removing the front sight from the barrel.

[psteinmayer]

I know, it is definitely too high... the bitch is that the rear barrel band can't pass over the front band either... so I will have to work at this by working around the bands!

[Deano41]

You're going to take the stock off the barreled action any way, so it shouldn't be too bad. Match the handguard where it "steps" down for the rear band, to meet the same spot on the stock. Then match the front end of the handguard with the front end of the cut stock. This should leave a space between the two pieces of the stock. That space is the measurement for the "spacer" you are going to glue to the front of the cut stock. (that space is the wood removed by the saw).