Old hat to you guys, I'm sure.

[Bodyman]

Wooden training rifles? Are these common? I'm a Garand guy and there isn't really anything like this for Garands (just plastic (yet equally lethal) training bayonets for the Navy ...). I think there are some other US training rifles but not Garands.

I just thought they were pretty neat ...

http://www.ima-usa.com/images/BE1916-6.jpg

http://www.ima-usa.com/images/BE1916-5.jpg

http://www.ima-usa.com/product_info.php/products_id/2594

[dave]

The US used a wood copy of the 03 during WW11. Made by Paris-Dunn Corp. (as I remember). I got one for Xmas in 1945, I was 11. It was quite realistic and very heavy for skinny me. Don't know what happened to it. Have seen some at gun shows for 150 bucks. Several other manufacturers made them too but not as detailed and full size as the Paris-Dunn. I think the plastic M!'s were made for the movies, not used by the military.

[Bodyman]

The movie prop M1's were so common when they first came out and yet I haven't seen one for sale for quite a while now. Next thing you know they will be "rare" ...:icon_rolleyes:

What I always think of when I see the training aids like this, are the pikes that the Japs actually made and issued at the end of the war. They had already issued all the 7/8ths child training rifles and the cast receiver "blank only" training rifles and by the last days of the war, the only thing they could make in quantity was basically a pointed stick ...

Can you imagine if you were sent into battle and they handed you something like this ...

[John Sukey]

That would be a bayonet trainer, or if the scabbard were to be left on, a fencing musket.
Most variations have a spring loaded plunger instead of a bayonet. My earliest is a Martini-Henry and the last a No1Mk3.

Have a Long Lee that has a cast iron reciever and magazine (one piece)

While I was attending tech school at Keesler AFB many years ago their student honor guard had those plastic 03's They used them for retreat ceremonies. I knew the Air Farce was a bit odd. Their "present arms" was done by holding the rifle by the small of the stock, barrel pointing down with the left hand and saluting with the right hand:rolleyes: I only watched it ONCE and tried not to BARF.
Often wondered what IDIOT taught them to do that.

[boz]

My pal's an SMLE collector and he has three of these! He might sell me one one day.

Alas for now I'll have to stick with my 22 pre-WW1 SMLEs.

B

[John Kepler]

While I was attending tech school at Keesler AFB many years ago their student honor guard had those plastic 03's .

My Dad did "Guard Duty" at Breezy Point NAS (Norfolk) late in WW II with the very same plastic 03's! Apparently they had "other uses" for the real deal!

[Mk VII]

I remember seeing drill dummies stored in the rifle range at school but they were much less sophisticated than this. They were weighted to the right weight, though, with a solid iron barrel, which this doesn't look to be. Movie prop seems more likely.

[John Sukey]

My pal's an SMLE collector and he has three of these! He might sell me one one day.

Alas for now I'll have to stick with my 22 pre-WW1 SMLEs.

B

You don't have to wait for your friend so sell you his. www.ima-usa.com has them for sale. AND they come with the bayonet! Though it is a repro.

[Jim K.]

The Japanese training rifles were not "last ditch" and should not be confused with the last Type 99's which were crude but effective. The trainers were mostly made before the war when the Japanese Army was in its campaign to militarize the country. They were intended only for blanks and should not be fired with live ammo, but some were quite well made with a good finish and adjustable sights.

Jim

[John Sukey]

One way to tell a trainer. the tang and reciever will be one piece instead of two.

[Dan in NY]

I posted this a few times over the years on the old Jouster...I think this is pretty cool...It's prolly not worth anything, but It looks good over my workbench...


Dan

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/218bee/wooden451.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/218bee/wooden452.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/218bee/wooden454.bmp

[JB White]

I had one of these dust collectors for a while. Priced it along with a couple of other Ishy's and turned them into a Snider.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/JBWhite/Dummy%20SMLE/Dummy2.jpg

This one had a sheet metal magazine and a spring loaded trigger. Bayonets wobbled badly as the lug was too small.

[Bodyman]

The Japanese training rifles were not "last ditch" and should not be confused with the last Type 99's which were crude but effective. The trainers were mostly made before the war when the Japanese Army was in its campaign to militarize the country. They were intended only for blanks and should not be fired with live ammo, but some were quite well made with a good finish and adjustable sights.

Jim


The "last ditch" part about the training rifles was not that they were made poorly but that by the end of the war things were so dire that they actually were issued and made it out onto the battlefield. Some doubt that this actually happened, but the 'last ditch' rifles were not the last things made by Japanese arms manufacturers.

No, the last things made to be issued to all hands that could fight were the pikes - some were long poles with a bayonet attachment on the end while others were merely long sticks with a blade or point at the end. Actually, one was just shown in one of the clips on the History channel last week in that series of WWII in HD color (or whatever the title was). When you get down to brass tacks, issuing these training rifles to the front lines was no different than arming people with a pointed stick ... and they did.

Not quite but close to what the Chinese did in Korea when they sent waves of troops forward without any firearms at all, expecting them to find a rifle on the way.

Whew, that is a different mindset than in the west ...

[John Sukey]

Japanese were not the only ones. In the early days of WW2 some Home Guard were issued PIKES. Metal pole with a P07 bayonet welded on to the end:eek: Thankfuly they never had to find out how effective it would have been against a 98K

[phil441]

As a kid in the '50s I had one of the 03 training rifles. It had a moving bolt, bayo mount, flip-up rear sight with elevation slider and a khaki sling. The stock had the finger grooves and all. It actually looked quite real from just a few feet away.
It was mounted over the front door of the family lake cabin when it was taken during a break-in. I've always wondered what the guy thought when he got it into the daylight or tried to load it.

[John Sukey]

Speaking of thefts. I donated a japanese made thompson NON GUN to the Presidio Army Museum for one of their displays many years ago. One of the dependents broke in one night and guess what he stole! While the gun was harmless, he broke intoa FEDERAL installation!:eek:
I assume he was not a happy camper when they busted him.

[mack]

I have never owned a training "aid" as these are called by some. But imagine my surprise when I went to the IMA site and discovered that the practice rifle there cost TEN TIMES what I paid for my first No. 4! Talk about sticker shock!
:icon_scratch:

:grommit: