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Pete
12-07-2009, 05:16
Destroyer CO, master chief removed over fraternization cases

By Kate Wiltrout
The Virginian-Pilot
Hampton Roads, Virginia
December 6, 2009

The commanding officer and highest-ranking enlisted sailor aboard the Norfolk-based destroyer James E. Williams were removed Friday in the wake of a fraternization scandal that erupted on a recent deployment.

The guided-missile destroyer and its crew of about 300 sailors left Norfolk in April for a six-month cruise to the Mediterranean and Arabian seas. They returned Oct. 19.

At the helm was Cmdr. Paul Marquis, whose career includes service at the Pentagon, the Naval Academy and Joint Forces Command. The top enlisted sailor was Command Master Chief Timothy Youell, a 25-year Navy veteran.

Both were reassigned Friday to administrative jobs by Capt. Robert C. Barwis, commander of Destroyer Squadron 26, according to a Navy spokesman. The fallout doesn't end there, Senior enlisted sailors punished for fraternizing with junior shipmates will likely see themselves out of the Navy for good.

Lt. Cmdr. Phil Rosi, a spokesman for the Navy's Fleet Forces Command, said at least one crew member is facing criminal charges for an alleged sexual assault reported while the ship was in the Mediterranean. A second sexual assault, reported five days later, is still being investigated, Rosi said.

Nine Williams crew members were punished last month for fraternization, a military term for relationships that do not respect differences in rank.

The military forbids "unduly familiar" relationships between officers and enlisted sailors, as well as between junior and senior enlisted personnel. The relationships do not have to be romantic: Navy policy also forbids living together, having private business partnerships, and loaning one another money.

Rosi would not comment on the nature of the Williams' fraternization cases, but said that nine sailors received non-judicial punishment for fraternization. Five were male chief petty officers, he said, and four were female junior enlisted sailors: one first class petty officer, two second class petty officers and one third class petty officer.

Reports of the fraternization surfaced in October a few weeks before the ship returned.

The chiefs involved are being processed for separation from the Navy, Rosi said.

Admiral J.C. Harvey Jr., a four-star admiral who leads Fleet Forces Command, issued a statement about the firings - an indication of how seriously the service takes the problem.

"Such a large number of fraternization cases in one command is a clear indication of a leadership failure," Harvey said. "The responsibility of the commanding officer for his or her command is absolute. It is our tradition that with responsibility goes authority and with them both goes accountability."

The Navy typically offers few details when a commanding officer is relieved for loss of confidence in his or her ability to command; the shortcomings are considered a personnel matter.

Neither Marquis nor Youell was implicated in the fraternization cases or alleged sexual assaults. Their failures were ones of leadership, Rosi said.

Marquis' second-in-command was not implicated in the problems. But Cmdr. Daniel Sunvold, who was serving as executive officer on the Williams, has been reassigned to the same position on the destroyer Bainbridge.

The move, Rosi said, will give both Sunvold and the Williams' crew "the opportunity for a fresh start, with a new leadership team."

Cmdr. Anthony J. Linardi is the new commanding officer of the Williams, Rosi said, while Master Chief James Stuart is the prospective command master chief.

JB White
12-07-2009, 06:30
How do you suppose this was found out? An estranged or rejected lover?
Oh..."reports"...Plural! Maybe someone was making the rounds and they all caught the clap??

dave
12-08-2009, 07:48
They said it was non sexual. Any way, when I was in the AF there was no such rule regarding enlisted ranks. Never heard of such a thing! How did they find out? Hell those "honorble" people snitch on each other all the time. Look at the Navy Seals, elit of the elit, one reports on his fellows when they "punched" a captive slim bag in the stomach. That guy should be 'shunned' the rest of his time in service!

Dan Wilson
12-10-2009, 11:57
Well technically fraternization can only occur between an officer and an enlisted, with only the officer being liable for fraternization. Usually for enlisted they manufacture other charges to bag them with.
This article is really interesting, wonder if any of the sailors sought counsel before signing the article 15's? Its all written out in the UCMJ.

Personally, I bet the chief was pimping a whole string of ho's and they got busted for it, I knew some women in the first gulf war who made a whole lot more money on top of Ulncle Sugars paycheck.

Dan

2571
12-11-2009, 06:07
Remember that woman bomber pilot who was involved with an enlisted man? Guy's wife turned her in. Pres. wanted to smooth things over but brass convinced him that fraternization orders had to be suported.

She got the ax. Deserved it, too.

Some military philosophies have and will always make sense, even if they apppear harsh.

Faulkner
12-12-2009, 07:44
Some military philosophies have and will always make sense, even if they apppear harsh.

I'm sure the unqualified black man and his liberal buddies can help the military realign their philosophies to something a little more, well, liberal. http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL488/1124764/2189969/306801540.jpg

John Sukey
12-12-2009, 10:27
When Churchill was first Sea Lord, an admiral complained about changes he wanted to make, saying they were against the traditions of the navy.
Churchill replied "Sir I ask you , what are the traditions of the navy?
Rum, sodomy, and the lash!"
Or a much older saying
"Rum, Bum, and Baccy"

While I am at it, a much older saying "Cold enough to freeze the balls of a brass monkey" Had nothing to do with private parts or monkeys
Ready ammunition, ie; cannon balls were stacked next to each gun on a triangular brass platform called a "monkey"
In very cold weather, the brass contracted and the cannon balls rolled off it.

phil441
12-12-2009, 08:05
I never understood the Navy way of doing things.
I was in the AF 1961-1965, and was assigned temporary duty to Key West NAS as a RADAR tech on the F-102s to watch over Cuba. Our first day on arrival a bunch of us airmen were looking over the base and found ourselves walking down Admirals Row in our fatigues. A SP pickup showed up to "escort" us back to our temporary barracks. There we were informed that no enlisted men were allowed on that street unless we were wearing Class A's. None of us had even brought those.
The next day several of us went to the Tower/Base Ops bldg. The first thing we noticed was a stairwell with a big "Officer Country - no enlisted personnel allowed" sign. We knew we weren't in Kansas anymore!
We got our "Alert" trailers set up. One for sleeping and an adjoining Ready Room where no one was asleep for the duration of the shift.
The Swabbies were flabbergasted to learn that Officers and Enlisted people even shared a trailer! Totally alien to us guys who were on friendly terms with our Pilots. Protocol was always followed to a T but we were all in the situation together so we worked together.

Tradition can sometimes be a burden with no useful outcome.

Just a Thought,
Phil

2flasargent
12-13-2009, 05:32
I was on both sides of the wardroom door in the Navy, Joined as enlisted, made 1st class (E6) and went through a commissioning program, serving the last 14 years as a line officer. I supported the 'apartheid' from both sides. The bridge and quarterdeck are always formal, and officer's country is kept separate. When you must live inches apart for 6 months or more, no room to get away, the very structured environment is vital and I believe appreciated by all. Enlisted berthing is almost as sacred from officers except for inspections, and everyone can have an area where they are not being looked at. That's what makes the fratranization 'crime' in the Navy so bad. There is so little personal life at sea that everyone doesn't share that an officer going over the line is automaticaly culpable. He has the option, an enlisted is always assumed to be the victim. Anyway hundreds of years tradition in our Navy and every other one I've worked with really is based on practical considerations.

Dan Wilson
12-13-2009, 02:32
I was on both sides of the wardroom door in the Navy, Joined as enlisted, made 1st class (E6) and went through a commissioning program, serving the last 14 years as a line officer. I supported the 'apartheid' from both sides. The bridge and quarterdeck are always formal, and officer's country is kept separate. When you must live inches apart for 6 months or more, no room to get away, the very structured environment is vital and I believe appreciated by all. Enlisted berthing is almost as sacred from officers except for inspections, and everyone can have an area where they are not being looked at. That's what makes the fratranization 'crime' in the Navy so bad. There is so little personal life at sea that everyone doesn't share that an officer going over the line is automaticaly culpable. He has the option, an enlisted is always assumed to be the victim. Anyway hundreds of years tradition in our Navy and every other one I've worked with really is based on practical considerations.

Well I cant really go with that sentiment either, I spent my first two years in the army where things are really segregated (like the Navy), and my first three in the Air Farce as a knuckle buster (aircraft mechanic), the only time I saw an officer was when a crew showed up to fly.

But my next 22 years I spent as a Flight Engineer on C-130's of various types (last 12 in special ops) and I sat in the middle of three to four officers on MY flight deck, and spent together many years on the road with usually the same group of O's.

Much of that in tents where you have little more "personal" room than shipboard and much less personal room "at work". Off duty more often than not we would be drinking, eating and partying with the same "O's" we flew and live with, with only very occasional problems, the whole back of the bus attitude really would have served zero purpose.

Usually the E or O that was causing the problems would be taken care of in-house (read that as amongst the crew) and never elevated it above that. Never really had any serious problems, as to fraternization when it occurred (and it did occur a few times over the years) word would be given to the officer involved that it was unacceptable, and either quit doing it or hide it better before the commander "officially" found out and had to take action that nobody would like.

Now as to the squids being a strange lot at times, I can second that on a few occasions.
How about getting arrested by the SP's for not wearing socks with flip flops?????
Or sitting on the ramp at Guantanamo having a smoke fifty foot from the airplane (as per AF standards at the time), had some young female rate come up to me and have a holy cow, made me put it out and then came back out with whisk broom and dust pan to sweep my ashes up off the ramp - WTFO:confused:.
We wont even talk about the Master Chief's reaction when he seen me having a smoke 300 foot from refueling operations:eek:

I can understand most of the Navy's difference's as being standardization between ship and shore but socks with flip flops?http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/FTFFTW/smileys/sheep.gif

Dan

phil441
12-13-2009, 08:55
As an other instance of Huh?
Our same little group of airmen, all A1Cs, three stripes, E4s, went to the dining hall. Went through the serving line and sat down close the the milk machine to eat. A guy with a whole bunch of stripes came over to our table and informed us that we'd have to move to the partitioned Petty Officer section. So we moved there ( again close to the milk machine). Another fellow with a whole bunch of stripes came over and informed us that we needed to be in the Seaman's (EM's) section. So we moved again.
By then we were finally finished with our meals and left.
The next day the same thing started again. This was getting old! Finally a many-striper came over and informed that they didn't know where to put us and to just pick a place.
We chose the Seaman's section because the mechanical cow gave colder milk.

Phil