Gunshow Truth or Fiction?

[tmark]

I attended a gunshow this weekend and passed a table with an Eddystone M17. The tag read: New, unissued, P17 Enfield (or words to that effect). The vendor repeated the tag, verbally, stating the rifle is new and still in cosmoline.

I asked to handle the rifle. The barrel and receiver are marked E but not the bolt release part on the left side of the receiver. To my knowledge, this part is marked E on Eddy manufacture.

The receiver and bolt are colored gray green and not blue. The barrel appeared gray blue. The stock had no markings on the fore end (no E, W, or R). The stock looked brand new or refinished with no dings. The left side of the stock had a RA-P stamped on it. In front of the trigger guard on the stock was stamped an Eagle unlike any style I've seen on other M17s. The stamp lines are deep, narrow, and sharp, dug into the wood rather than the ink-stamp appearance I've seen on other USGI stocks.

I think this is not a new unissued rifle but an arsenal and/or private owner rebuild.

Your thoughts on the matter? Oh yes, the vendor wanted $1000 for it.

[mdoerner]

It's definitely not "un-issued" because of the RA-P box on the stock (rebuild). I wouldn't rely on the snake-oil salesman's word in any-case; I think you've found that a little knowledge goes a long way in the world of firearms (or anything else BTW).

Mike D

[Bill]

Of course it is not new, unissued.

Possibly not used since arsenal rebuild. Many of these gunshow dealers are really not very well informed, and a little grease instantly translates to "still in the cosmolene".

I had a discussion recently with a vendor insisting that the 03A3 he was trying to sell for a very inflated price was never even fired.

When I pointed out the OG marking on the butstock was a rebuild mark, he said he wondered what that meant.

[dave]

How in hell would any know a rifle was "unissued" or "unfired". Looks do not always tell the tale.

[chuckindenver]

unissued after rebuild maybe...ALL 1917,s 1903,s 1903A3,s 1911,s 1911A1,s ect were fired...they were all proof fired...
Parkerized finish tells me most likely it was rebuilt at least once, maybe 2 or 3 times, before it was deamed surplus.
remember.,.
always buy the gun not the story.
the gun will never lie, the stories are most likely BS.

[jjrothWA]

"RA-P" stamp. Means "Rainier Arsenal - proofed", by the former arsenal @ Ft. Lewis, Washington (state, not the DC {we got enough loonies out here})

Alos the greanish parkerizing, new WWI unissed was 'blued".

[mdoerner]

"RA-P" stamp. Means "Rainier Arsenal - proofed", by the former arsenal @ Ft. Lewis, Washington (state, not the DC {we got enough loonies out here})

Alos the greanish parkerizing, new WWI unissed was 'blued".

Except late (Sept 1918 - Feb 1919) Eddystone rifles, those were parkerized. Now I have a 1.25 Mil Eddystone (Jan 1919) that has been re-blued. Go figure.....:icon_rolleyes:

Mike D

[Chaz]

Tmark, I am curious as to where this gunshow was held? Might it have been in CA or AZ? BK

[tmark]

Bruce, the gunshow was held in MD.

[Jim K.]

Sorry, the RA in RA-P stands for Raritan Arsenal (NJ) the main US depot for storage of arms for shipment to Europe in WWII, but also the depot from which hundreds of thousands of surplus rifles were shipped to NRA members who purchased them through the old DCM.

(There is some question about the meaning of the "P". Some say it means "proved", others that it stands for an inspector named Peterson. Based on similar markings from other arsenals, the latter would seem more likely.)

The RA-P is not really a rebuild mark. Under Army regulations at the time, all rifles sold to civilians had to be proof fired ("proved") prior to release, an early instance of consumer protection. The mark means that was done, and that the rifle was satisfactory, whether it had been rebuilt or not. The mark appears on brand new, unissued M1903A3's sold through DCM.

That the M1917 in question is not new is indicated by the gray-green Parkerizing, a characteristic of rifles rebuilt or refurbished during WWII.

Jim

[ggg33]

That could be a name for a new game show. Listening to all the dealer B.S. is a big part of my gun show entertainment.:eusa_liar:

[chuckindenver]

what i have learned.
if its a gun i want, i just ask how much he wants,,if its fair, i buy it..
i dont ask for a history lesson, chances are i know a lot more about his rifle then he does,
and correcting him will only make the deal sour.
if its too much, i walk away, let him keep it.

[Deano41]

Good advice CID. I've never been with so many experts under one roof, than at a gun show! Overhearing some of the statements made at a gunshow makes it a challenge to keep my mouth shut and maintain a straight face.

Dean (the other one)

[John Sukey]

What I have on my table are valuable antiques, what you have to trade is crap,
Let's deal:rolleyes:

[chuckindenver]

What I have on my table are valuable antiques, what you have to trade is crap,
Let's deal:rolleyes:

rust if im buying patina if im selling..thats not wire, its an Indian repair..very rare...10 grand and its yours..

[lyman]

That could be a name for a new game show. Listening to all the dealer B.S. is a big part of my gun show entertainment.:eusa_liar:


you would be surprised by the amount of BS that comes from the customer side of the tables as well,,,,,