Headspace Question

[P&WR2800]

Reference the 1917 about which I posted earlier: I borrowed a friend's Clymer "Go" and "No-Go"gauges, and my rifle closed easily on the "No-Go". Is it worth it for me to buy a Field Gauge? Assuming it passes with the FG, what is that really telling me? I won't shoot the rifle now, but I'm confused about the advisability of shooting it having only passed with the FG.

[Match223]

Verify that the bolt is completely closing on the No-Go gauge, the bolt handle will appear to close but look at the gap between the handle and the wood with and without the gauge.

Gary

[P&WR2800]

Verify that the bolt is completely closing on the No-Go gauge, the bolt handle will appear to close but look at the gap between the handle and the wood with and without the gauge.

Gary

Well, I feel stupid. There is a considerable difference in the position of the bolt. I felt like it was closing, but it wasn't.
Thanks very much!

[dave]

If it does close on the no-go it means headspace is out of specs, period! That is why it is called a no-go, cause it should not go! If it passes the "field" gauge you can wait, use it, till rifle can be repaired "when you are out of the field" and have access to have it done and turn it in. It does not mean forever!

[P&WR2800]

If it does close on the no-go it means headspace is out of specs, period! That is why it is called a no-go, cause it should not go! If it passes the "field" gauge you can wait, use it, till rifle can be repaired "when you are out of the field" and have access to have it done and turn it in. It does not mean forever!

Thanks for the explanation.

[Match223]

The reason I thought your headspace was good is because I did the same thing, I bought 2 1917's from a friend and when I thought they failed the No-Go gauge I was extremely upset. I just happened to flip the rifle on it's side and noticed the difference in the gap between the wood and bolt handle with the Go & No-Go gauge.
It is very deceiving and could happen to anyone, it did to both you and me.

Gary

[Doug Rammel]

With the field gauge in the rifle turn the bolt to the closed position. DO NOT force it. Finger pressure only. Now try to engage the safety. If the safety won't turn on it passes.:1948:

Hey Chuck isn't it true that you use a go and no-go gauge to install and finish ream a new barrel. The field gauge is used after the that.:eusa_wall:

[chuckindenver]

i dont use a Go Gage...use a live factory round. when it closes easy on a live factory round, its done, i then check with a no go gage..
most 17,s even with a new barrel will close on a go and no go..{not all}
what i have learned over the years is that headspacing a 17 is not like that of say a 1903.
cock on open vs cock on close.
to check headspace on a 17.
remove the extractor, and the cocking assembly..
drop the gage into the chamber, muzzle down.
then lightly work the bolt close until you feel it tighten up, dont force it closed, likely it will close, just do to the type of locking lugs they have.
with a fired factory case i look at pressure issues, case squat, cracks, primer issues ect.
a fired factory case will tell you more about headspace then any gage will.
with most of the new barrels being installed on the 17,s they arent very short in the chamber, and some will close on a live round with a reem.
however, they are rough, and should be dressed a couple turns with a finish reemer.
i

[Dan Wilson]

Wrong

A no-go is what you use when you re-barrel and are finish cutting the chamber.

If you are checking headspace on a used rifle you should only worry about the Field Reject gage. If it passes the FR gage you can shoot it forever, it does NOT mean you can shoot only until repair is possible.

If it passes the Field gage its good period! No repair is necessary.

Dan

[chuckindenver]

ok, lets back up a bit....

specs.
Go Gage is used for a new barrel, or new bolt..first..
no go or not go..is used to check wear..
field reject is the longest and used after a rifle has closed on a no go or not go..
if it closes on a field reject,, its time for a new barrel, or bolt..or both.
however.
1917 and P14,s are soft and only surface hardened, and years of use will wear the locking lug cam weighs {ways} hardest on this area is manual of arms, since many of the rifles today were used in basic training ROTC and other areas were the bolt was worked hard thousands of times, its common to see them worn through the surface hardening.
the picture of the receiver i have above shows this, though not likely from manual of arms use, likely a fire, and hot handloads over time.
bolt setback is an issue, with this problem, the only way to really fix this is to match face the reciever, and that will only be a short term fix.
unfortunatly, the only way to find this issue is to remove the barrel, and look at the face of the lug ways..if they are galled or have grooves worn in them then they are likley toast.
turning the shoulder back of the barrel wont fix this issue..only turning the face of the reciever, and sooner or later the ways will wear out of spec again.
remember these rifles are darn near 100 years old, and have seen a lot of use, no matter how pretty she is, likely she has had that bolt worked over 1000 times.
nickle steel on nickle steel is a hard thing, and will gall the surface.

as i stated i dont use a go gage...i found it easier to use a live factory round, i get a tighter chamber, and a smoother one as well,
iv had them close on a live round and not close easy on a go gage..that 100 year old rifle comes to play here..

[chuckindenver]

picture of a worn locking lug ways..

[chuckindenver]

and a pic of a nice set of lug ways...no galling..

[Kirby]

Chuck,

Thanks much for the advice in checking the headspace on the Winchester 1917 I recently acquired.

For those who are new to checking head space on a 1917 as I am there is a method to the madness. This particular rifle the bolt would close on a no go gauge but after following Chuck's advice in removing the firing pin assembly the bolt would not close on a no go gauge.

[John Sukey]

I doubt if your rifle is unsafe in any way as long as the bolt matches.

[Kirby]

It is a Win bolt in a Win rifle, finish and wear patterns match but cannot be 100% it is the original to the rifle. I do not shoot them but like to know I can if I wanted to.

[Windsor]

I thought M1917s used Nickle Steel receivers (and therefore weren't surface-hardened).

edit: nevermind, saw Chuck's post in another thread. :)