Winchester 52 (A) question

[Bolt2bounce]

I picked up a win 52 from a friend it is 32000 SN range and had no letter prefix, the question is this a A model?? the barrel is 24 inchs bull has a 20 X Letchert spotshot scope on it.. along with a redfield sight but I can't see a model # on the sight.. thanks B2B

[Hip's Ax]

That would be what is sometimes called a "pre A". A's, and there weren't many of them as I understand it, will have an A in the serial number just like a B, C, D or E. Its likely you have a heavy barrel rather than a bull, bull barrels are darned near the same diameter as the receiver.

Pictures of the sight would help us identify it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_52

[Bolt2bounce]

My camera is about 14 years old so the pic is poor.. I think you are right about the heavy barrel, not a bull and it seems much shorter compared to the Mod C I have.. and I think the mod d's barrel I have is a bit heavier also.. I probably paid too much for this gun but I was helping out a friend.. who need money and I'm a sucker for target 22's, it has some problems like a broken screw holding the barrel band on gonna be fun getting that out.. and I don't believe the redfield sight is original to the gun, some hack put it on and did a very poor job of it.. it is also missing the safety.. But I bet it will shoot great.. is the Litchert scopes good? I've never had a external adj type scope.. B2B


http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/medium/PICT000411.JPG

http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/medium/PICT000119.JPG

[Hip's Ax]

The original rear sight for this rifle would have been a leaf sight that would have occupied that slot on the top of the rear of the reciever. That is unless it was ordered with a Lyman or other rear sight. The pre A Speedlocks look like they came in a number of different varients, I'm looking in Houze's 52 book and there is a lot of info in here on rifles from your era. Looks like the barrel would have been 28" originally. Try and get your hands on a copy of Houze's book, you'll have a good time trying to figure out what your rifle originally was. That is one of the true joys of old rifles, to me anyway.

I have a 20X Litschert and it seems like a really good scope. I did go to shoot it once but it was late in the day and I couldn't see a darned thing through it. No doubt a pre A with a Litschert on it is a rather classic set up though, I'd love to have it.

Your rear sight does not look familiar to me, it almost has a Parker Hale flavor but in the last 80 plus years this rifle has existed anything is possible. I have a copy of "old gun sights" at my desk at work, I'll try and find your rear sight tomorrow sometime.

[Bolt2bounce]

The sight is a redfield it says it on the left rear corner of the sight in very small letters but no model # it is not a fancy redfield like a palam or international very small and compact sight. I took it off and apart and lube it up and made sure the screws were moving and the detent's were working.. I'll try to get a better picture taken of it, maybe some better light outside... The barrel is 24" but it does not look like it has been cut down to me.. I'm no expert but the front of the barrel looks original, faced off like the other Winchester's I have. So what do you think the manufacture era is?? the 30's? Amazing shape if it is that old.. has evidence of a bit of surface rust (old) on the trigger guard metal but it's now bad, and I guess that is the area where peoples hands were touching the gun the most... B2B

[dave]

I own one in the 34000 range and I think it was made in 32-33, altho my notes don't say (Hmmmm!). I believe your barrel has been cut, I would bet no M-52 target rifle would have been made with a 24" barrel, (special order?) It would be no problem for a competant gunsmith to do this and crown as the factory did. He could aslo move the sight back to look factory (you did not mention this). Looks like the stock comb has also been modified, not unusual for target rifles, owners modified them to suit themslves, they were shooters not collectors. I also own number 9768 and it was made in 1927. Production was not hi at the time.

[Bolt2bounce]

yes the dovetail is Cut and a target globe type sight is installed if it is not factory it was well done, a lot better than the rear sight work.. why would some one cut 4 inches off a 22 LR barrel just to save a bit of weight?? seems strange to me.. but I know walther and anchutz both discovered the shorter barrels were more accurate less time for barrel harmonics to effect the bullet I've been told.. B2B

[Hip's Ax]

According to Houze 32000 SN range was November/December 1933.

34000 range was August/September 1934.

[Parashooter]

Here's what it might have looked like without the modifications.This one is 33566, all-original, heavy-barrel, dovetail base for a Lyman 48J (inset). Barrel date is [19]34. Front sight is Lyman 17A, scope a Litschert 20X. Target was fired last September, 100-yard prone outdoor match - and the two 9's were thrown by me, not the rifle.

http://telecom.hartford.edu/images/win52speed.jpg

Some would call it a "pre-A", but I believe the precise term for this variation (between the old "slow-lock" and the 52A) is "speed-lock". Could easily be wrong - I'd rather shoot than study.

[Bolt2bounce]

some more and better pics of the rear sights

http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/medium/PICT00096.JPG

http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/medium/PICT0002_11.JPG

http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/medium/PICT001010.JPG

[musculus]

you should check carefully whther the left side bolt locking lug is cracked.. a common problem in early 52s.

Sometimes easy to see, sometimes harder. the usualy trick is to put some CLP or other penetrating oil on it then wipe it off, the crack can be easier to see then. good luck.

[Bolt2bounce]

I'll check for cracks on the bolt. thanks B2B

[Hip's Ax]

OK, as best I can tell trying to match up the pictures in "Old Gunsights" and the pictures of your rifle it appears you may have a Redfield 100 rear sight.

[dave]

According to Houze 32000 SN range was November/December 1933.

34000 range was August/September 1934.

Thank you for that! dave

[dave]

you should check carefully whther the left side bolt locking lug is cracked.. a common problem in early 52s.

Sometimes easy to see, sometimes harder. the usualy trick is to put some CLP or other penetrating oil on it then wipe it off, the crack can be easier to see then. good luck.

Don't you mean the RECIEVER lug that locks the bolt "left side of reciever"? My 34000 has such a broken lug but I shot the rifle all the time, I do not think it is unsafe and accuracy does not seem to be affected.

As for barrel being cut---I think 22-24" has been shown to be ideal for accuracy, any longer really makes no differance. But it does give a longer sight radias with longer barrel.

[Bolt2bounce]

I will check very carefully for any cracks.. in the receiver and bolt.. I wonder if there is any way to know for sure if the barrel has been cut down, not that it really matters just for the sake of knowing.. I'm looking forward to shooting it this weekend.. The guy who sold it to me (a good friend) had it for about 10-15 years and shot about a box of ammo through it, the guy he got it from is now dead.. from cancer too bad, he was a cool guy and a big gun guy. I had met him a few times but I didn't know him all that well. Thanks for the info..on the redfield 100 rear sight.. I googled it but couldn't find a picture of the model 100 rear sight...yet.. it is a nice small compact sight.. Not sure how good it is as far as elevation range and such, I doubt it will have enough up and down to go past about 100 yards.. The rifling looks really good.. B2B

[Parashooter]

Image shows receiver crack on speed-lock Model 52, reinforced with hardened steel pin to arrest further damage - a simple repair that has been in place for some 30 years and thousands of shots. Without reinforcement, bulk of bolt thrust is borne by the right lug, eventually developing increased headspace and possible erratic ignition.

http://telecom.hartford.edu/images/win52crack.jpg

[Bolt2bounce]

Nice photo I wish I could do that close up work with arrows and stuff... but my camera is very old and I just never figured that stuff out, I'll check my 52 out carefully... B2B

[Bolt2bounce]

I check the lug carefully no cracks.. that is good.. B2B

[jake2009]

I have a "pre-A" as well - SN 14196 which is 1929 manufacture, I believe. Rear ladder sight, non-speed-lock. Looks like the day it was built. I don't remember if it has a "grasping groove" stock (I can look tonight in response to any inquiries. Definitely collector grade. What would a fair value be?

[jake2009]

I have a "pre-A" that is absolutely immaculate - definite collector grade and looks like it just left the factory. Ladder rear sight on rear receiver, post front. I don't remember if it has a grasping groove stock (but I can check if anyone asks). Not a speed-lock. What is a fair value for this gem? SN 14196 which is, I believe, 1929 manufacture. Thanks