View Full Version : SMLE No.1MKIII vet bring back from Afghanistan
Gang,
A buddy's friend just got back from a combat tour in Afghanistan and brought back a No.1MKIII SMLE. It's been rode hard and put away wet many times and has minor "field repairs" to the handguards. The brass buttplate is so tarnished that it is slightly dark. The bore is excellent (looks like the natives appreciate and care for their rifles) and the only part missing is the safety/locking lever. It looks like it has been tied to a truck and hauled down a gravel road based on the dings to the stock.
I am very impressed with how rugged this rifle is!!
Hagar
Hagar
Enfieldlock
09-16-2009, 01:51
Any chance of getting the manufacturer and date.
The choice is whether to "restore" it or just clean it up and use it. The ones I have seen have fore-ends that are well shot away. The "drawers" may well need repairing.
Suggest he ties it to a post and fires it first.
Lock,
I still have the rifle as I'm degreasing it for him and will replace the missing safety/locking lever. I have an old tire duct-taped vertically to a post up on the farm that we all use for "proofing" our new acquisitions. You put the butt inside the tire, and place the front of the rifle against the sidewall and bungee cord it firmly in place. There's a levee a few feet away that serves as a backstop. I'll use some of my HXP .303 for ammo.
The upper handguards are oil soaked but firm. The rear upper handguard has an area just forward of the receiver where something appears to have been depot removed as there are two crossways inlay repairs and a recessed are with two holes there.
The rifle is marked, "Enfield 1918" on the right socket assembly along with the British crown.
What are "drawers"?
I'll use mineral spirits and soaking in the sun to get as much grease and oil out as I can but beyond that I've told him to leave it as it is as that's the shape it was in while being used by an Afghan villager.
In case he wants to replace the missing part, where would I go to find one? I'd also like a source for a period accurate repro sling and blade in case he wants to add those to the weapon.
Many thanks for your help.
Hagar
for parts you can't beat springfield sporters or numrich gunparts corp, both are usa, large, have a large range of enfield bits, and best of all, their prices are good.
When test firing; the most important screw to make sure its tight is the larger screw just in front of the magazine. If this is loose, or the wood beneath the trigger guard which it holds is not held firmly, you will split the front wood wide open. Not recommended if that happens close to your face.
For purposes of what we're discussing the drawers area and things that need to be checked dept; take the forend off and see if the wood recoil blocks in the forend are intact and not chewed away by oil and age.
To find them, under the receiver is a pair of lugs that hang down and the trigger bits and magazine release are pivoted in them. The back side of these lugs press against a matching shaped pieces of wood inside the forend. Perhaps another member has a pic or drawing to refer to.
If these are damaged; if oil soaked there's no way to make repairs stick to it, so a replacment front end might be in order, don't worry these are cheap. ish.
If dry then new wood blocks can be shaped and epoxied in place.
Sounds like fun, ...
..in which case it might not be prudent to shoot. those folks didn't care much about stuff like headspace or parts interswitchability.
,,,
The Khyber Pass region of the Afghanistan/Pakistan border has long been home to gunsmiths making homemade copies of firearms from whatever materials come to hand, be they railway lines, wrecked vehicles or scrap metal.
During British expeditions in the North-West frontier in the 19th century, the locals acquired numbers of rifles from the British. These were generally Martini-Henrys, but later on Martini-Enfields and even Lee-Enfields were acquired. They then began making copies using the afore-mentioned locally available materials.
The quality on Khyber Pass-made rifles is generally considerably inferior to factory-made examples and they may, in fact, be dangerously unsafe to fire. Khyber Pass Copy rifles cannot generally stand up to the pressures generated by modern commercial ammunition and it is generally advised that they not be fired under any circumstances.
The most obvious way of spotting a Khyber Pass Copy rifle, aside from the overall poor quality, is a reversed 'N' in the 'Enfield' markings on the receiver or 'VR' (Victoria Regina) ciphers with dates after her death in 1901.
...
http://www.victorianwars.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=822
for parts you can't beat springfield sporters or numrich gunparts corp, both are usa, large, have a large range of enfield bits, and best of all, their prices are good.
When test firing; the most important screw to make sure its tight is the larger screw just in front of the magazine. If this is loose, or the wood beneath the trigger guard which it holds is not held firmly, you will split the front wood wide open. Not recommended if that happens close to your face.
For purposes of what we're discussing the drawers area and things that need to be checked dept; take the forend off and see if the wood recoil blocks in the forend are intact and not chewed away by oil and age.
To find them, under the receiver is a pair of lugs that hang down and the trigger bits and magazine release are pivoted in them. The back side of these lugs press against a matching shaped pieces of wood inside the forend. Perhaps another member has a pic or drawing to refer to.
If these are damaged; if oil soaked there's no way to make repairs stick to it, so a replacment front end might be in order, don't worry these are cheap. ish.
If dry then new wood blocks can be shaped and epoxied in place.
Sounds like fun, ...
RJW,
Many thanks for your patient explanation of terminology and technique! Is there a book you'd recommend that would detail teardown, maintenance and accurizing of the SMLEs?
Many thanks,
Hagar
..in which case it might not be prudent to shoot. those folks didn't care much about stuff like headspace or parts interswitchability.
,,,
The Khyber Pass region of the Afghanistan/Pakistan border has long been home to gunsmiths making homemade copies of firearms from whatever materials come to hand, be they railway lines, wrecked vehicles or scrap metal.
During British expeditions in the North-West frontier in the 19th century, the locals acquired numbers of rifles from the British. These were generally Martini-Henrys, but later on Martini-Enfields and even Lee-Enfields were acquired. They then began making copies using the afore-mentioned locally available materials.
The quality on Khyber Pass-made rifles is generally considerably inferior to factory-made examples and they may, in fact, be dangerously unsafe to fire. Khyber Pass Copy rifles cannot generally stand up to the pressures generated by modern commercial ammunition and it is generally advised that they not be fired under any circumstances.
The most obvious way of spotting a Khyber Pass Copy rifle, aside from the overall poor quality, is a reversed 'N' in the 'Enfield' markings on the receiver or 'VR' (Victoria Regina) ciphers with dates after her death in 1901.
...
http://www.victorianwars.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=822
Goo,
Many thanks for the warning! My son on his first tour actually went to this area and was amazed at what these craftsmen could accomplish with simple hand tools, a small forge and an anvil. I checked this rifle again and the "N" in Enfield is correct, there is no V.R. and the barrel is clearly legit with strong rifling. The owner wants to shoot it so I'll check headspace on it and the old "tire on the post" proofing will take place while we huddle behind a tractor pulling on the cord to the trigger. I'll take a very close look at the fired cartridge for signs of excessive headspace and will warn the owner of the potential hazard. Many thanks for warning us!!
BTW, what model Harley did you buy? I looked at your photo and the thought occurred to me that a flat olive drab paint job with blaclklogo and black exhaust pipes would make a great military look on a modern bike :)
Thanks again,
Hagar
http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Media/images/Apps/2010_Motorcycles/seo/seo_soflstsb_def_dom.jpg
...
http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Content/Pages/2010_Motorcycles/bike/Cross_Bones.html#/model/flstsb
Your buddies friend brought back a war trophy? How if I may ask Sir did he get it back... Thanks..
John Sukey
09-18-2009, 08:26
That thought also occurred to me. The military has been crushing these.
I'd also like to hear the story. When we were coming back from Iraq, we were told, in no uncertain terms, that absolutely no firearms could go.
Do you mean that you were told that you couldn't fill out the paperwork (forgot the form number) to ask approval to have it declared a "trophy of war"? IF so, they've changed the rules from when I was in, during Viet Nam.
Donzi
"...a book you'd recommend..." Go here. There's a how-to on the right colume. http://www.surplusrifle.com/smle/index.asp
For the worst, I'd say, and it has cost several members their careers, and for some, their freedom. We couldn't bring back any weapon parts whatsoever or even a bayonet... :icon_scratch:
Viet Nam was a totally different time than post 9-11. During Viet Nam you could mail guns home no problem, they could NOT be full auto, but know of many SKS's, bolt action rifles and even a few muzzle-loaders(friend of mine found a cache of Pattern 1857 short Enfields). That all changed. Now they are not even allowing pre-1898 rifles if they use a center fire cartridge, like Martinis and Rolling Blocks. The bayonet restriction is new. Sounds like the Obama crowd is getting to work. Know of one man who able to bring some out, but he worked at headquarters and knew who's permission to get and which papers to get signed. 99% of the troops don't have that kind of access.
Do you mean that you were told that you couldn't fill out the paperwork (forgot the form number) to ask approval to have it declared a "trophy of war"? IF so, they've changed the rules from when I was in, during Viet Nam.
Donzi
The form in Iraq is CFLCC Form 603-1 (Modified), CFLCC War Souvenir Registration/Authorization. There is a part which states, "I, as Owner or Recieving/Reviewing Officer, do hereby certify that,"
Line no. 6 says, "I understand that war souvenir weaponry is not authorized."
I have the form with the bayonet (which, apparently, is not a weapon, go figure) I brought back.
Your buddies friend brought back a war trophy? How if I may ask Sir did he get it back... Thanks..
Marine,
Go to page 2 on Guntalk on the "No he won't carry...." thread and read the posts by P. Greaney and Nick Riv..
I belong to a vet group of all Nam vets who were in combat in country in 1968. We meet weekly and many have relatives in the war zones in the Middle East. We all agree that the current military climate makes bringing back weapons of any kind almost impossible. P.Greaney commanded a military customs inspection unit that inspected and sealed all unit equipment prior to it's being returned to the States with the unit. He notes how one Guard unit managed to legally bring back a number of weapons.
The person asking my help on this rifle may be telling a "sea story" and may have purchased it stateside for all I know and I certainly won't ask him.
Having said that, how hard would it be to slip a SMLE into a heavy, greasy, hot piece of armor or other equipment knowing that an inspector would never dig around and find it? I imagine that there are a lot of drug dogs sniffing returned units as drugs always come in from a war zone. It was completely out of control during Nam with Graves Registration people filling caskets with drugs to get them stateside.
My tour was very similar to Nicks up to and including taking my .38Spl derringer with me and bringing it back. Fortunately, I never had to use it as it was my "last ditch" weapon. Our unit was about 80 troops when up to full strength and we had our own tiny firebase. We had to provide our own defense which we did. We were immune to U.S. military harassment from outside our unit while within our own perimeter as we all had security clearances and were a high security mission STRIKE unit. We could and did use any number of unauthorized weapons within our perimeter (BARs, Garands, Thompsons, Sterlings, M2s etc.) in addition to our issue M14s, M16s, M79s and M60s. In my section fighting bunker I had my own Sterling, BAR, Garand, Garand M1D/M84, and Thompson as well as my issue weapons. All but the Sterling were easily had as we'd given the South Vietnamese Arm all of our Korean War small arms and we'd trade with them to get the weapons and ammo we needed. The only weapon that was hard to get was the Sterling and both the Special Forces and CIA field agents had them so a trade was harder and more expensive than for the other weapons. The Sterling was a superb weapon and ran like a sewing machine although it was only 9MM. Our trading position was very good as one of my guys had a Uncle in Reno that would ship porno films to him. They were like gold as trading material.
Nam was like the Wild West in some areas away from REMFs with the only concern being to be as effective as possible. Fighting out of our own firebase made ammo and parts availibility and uniformity a problem easily solved. Up in I Corps one time on an ambush patrol 1/2 klick outside our perimeter, I ran into an army patrol that looked more like a Viking raiding party than anything else. Completely out of control but very good at patrolling and making Charlie and the NVA very nervous at night.
Most units were not like this but just enough were to make great subjects to fuel psycho Nam war movies for decades to come.
Sorry about the very long answer to a short question. Guess I better get back on my meds :)
roughman
03-13-2012, 09:27
Gang,
A buddy's friend just got back from a combat tour in Afghanistan and brought back a No.1MKIII SMLE. It's been rode hard and put away wet many times and has minor "field repairs" to the handguards. The brass buttplate is so tarnished that it is slightly dark. The bore is excellent (looks like the natives appreciate and care for their rifles) and the only part missing is the safety/locking lever. It looks like it has been tied to a truck and hauled down a gravel road based on the dings to the stock.
I am very impressed with how rugged this rifle is!!
Hagar
Hagar
Say... This is gonna be old info, but you can get lots of SMLE parts from Numrich.
Best advise is to get a "Field" head space guage from Brownells and check the head space before you shoot the gun. But like I said, this is probably old news.
As far as the stock is concerned, you might try Easy Off Oven cleaner. Spray on, let work for 15 minutes, remove with steel wool, wipe with wet towel. Remove wood from barrel and action first. Tip: The rear sight protectors remain with the fore end.
I just bought a Lithgow SMLE the other day, and I am about to try the Easy Off thing.
Hard to believe these almost 100 year-old rifles are still in use. Doubt many M-16's will be hanging around in a similar time, but you can never tell...
JB White
03-13-2012, 03:14
Don't ever use oven cleaner to clean up a rifle stock. Oven cleaner works by breaking down organic substances from metal and porcelin etc. Wood is an organic material. What happens is the wood is sapponified when EZ Off hits the surface. That's why all the dirt & grime comes off. It comes off with the disolved wood at the surface along with all the natural oils which belong in the wood.
Sure, it looks good as gold to an untrained eye but the wood fibers are now contaminated with compounds which continue to break down the wood over time. That stock may be 100 years old today. Use oven cleaner and it won't last another 100 years!
That oven cleaner bullcrap spread on the internet more than a decade ago. People who were too lazy and too impatient to use safe methods so they went looking for a shortcut. Then they bragged about how well it worked with little regard to collector value. It's been proven time and time again NOT to use those chemicals but people still insist. Why?
You certainly can bring back rifles and bayonets. However, some liberal douchebags and ignorant commanders who won't read the regs will tell you otherwise. If it was purchased from a local, it is not technically a war trophy and can be imported with the correct customs red tape if you plan months ahead. It's easier to get it through as a war trophy if you have a commander that doesn't believe everything is an illegal war trophy. Believe me, I have gotten both sides of this briefing enough times to make me sick.
In reality, the same general rules were in place in WW2. They were just mostly ignored.
Griff Murphey
03-14-2012, 05:03
The most heartbreaking story was our old member, Brian Ballard, who watched his .303 Winchester 1895 band-sawed in half at the Baghdad Airport, And the halves tossed into a trash can.
The most heartbreaking story was our old member, Brian Ballard, who watched his .303 Winchester 1895 band-sawed in half at the Baghdad Airport, And the halves tossed into a trash can.
Yes, it's important to keep us all safe from those terrible WMDs our guys try to sneak back into the country.
BlitzKrieg
04-09-2012, 12:52
I strongly recommend to not shoot that weapon. Anything in Afghan hands has most likely suspect parts
in it, on it and therefore: its down right unsafe. Now you can find out the hard way and ignore what I
just said or you can hang that weapon on the wall, and count your 10 fingers and toes with your undamaged
eyesight.
I hope I got your attention.
John Sukey
04-09-2012, 07:46
If he bought it at the local market, technicaly it is NOT a "war trophy"
If he bought it at the local market, technicaly it is NOT a "war trophy"
Exactly, now try to convince customs and the commander of that.
BlitzKrieg
04-27-2012, 07:38
Dennis Kroh, had a Afghan Capture with papers up for sale a few years ago, it was a Lebel. What he was
calling the capture papers were the JAG release and Customs papers all GI's (including me) had to fill out
and have signed off on before we could take our bought (bought at bazaar) relic pre 1898 mfg rifles over
to the APO and be able to ship them home. Yes: military papers, Yes it documented weapon came from
Afganistan but NO, Never, Nada.. not Capture Papers. However, I am sure the relevance of being bought
or captured is meaningless to collectors who want provenance for whatever obtuse reason that may be.
oldyella
04-28-2012, 03:46
I hope I got your attention.
yup :icon_lol:
Kyhber stuff
http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=200-%E2%80%9CKhyber-Pass%E2%80%9D-Lee-Enfield-No.I-Mk.III*-Rifle
BravoSierra
05-16-2012, 05:52
Would be interesting if this was one of the rifles the CIA transferred in the 80's, before Charlie Wilson increased the cash flow for more modern weapons..
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