Need Taller Front Sight

[DMark]

I plan to shoot a local 200 yard military rifle match with my 1917.

The front sight blade is marked "0.60" and the POI is 10-12 inches higher than the POA. Using my normal six o'clock hold, the hits are all high and almost out of the black. This is with either the battlesight or ladder sight at its lowest setting.

Anybody make a taller front sight?

Thanks,

D. Mark

[M1Riflenut]

The Enfields have a front sight kit with different height blades,IIRC these also fit the M1917/P14 sight base. I don't recall where I got mine,maybe Springfield Sporters? If not try GPC,Sarco etc. I got mine to dial in one of my Enfields,did not try them in the 1917 but I've read it works. Kit came with about 6 different height blades.

In a pinch you could always epoxy a small wire rod on the top of the blade.

[DMark]

Yup. just check SS and they are showing taller front sights for the Enfields. I will order some of them.

Thanks!

[BARMAN]

From my experience you will need a shorter front sight.
On a handgun you would need a taller front sight, on a Rifle to make it shoot lower, you lower the front sight.
Kinda of backwards I know, but that is what you will find out.
15 plus years of Highpower shooting Service Rifles.

Barman

[DMark]

From my experience you will need a shorter front sight...., 15 plus years of Highpower shooting Service Rifles....
Sorry Barman, I don't agree. The bullet doesn't know that it is coming out of the barrel of a handgun or a rifle. A higher Front Sight will ALWAYS drive down the POI.

But I could be wrong...., I'm only basing that on 30+ years of Master Level Service Rifle/3-Gun/USPSA/IDPA experience (not to mention 3 Wars).

[emmagee1917]

Yep....rule of thumb....you move the rear to where you want to GO...( down for down ) ....you move the front to where you are...( hitting high-raise the front). Does not matter if rifle or pistol.
Now , what does matter is bullet weight. A heavier bullet behind the same powder charge will hit lower because it's moving slower and therefore has more time to drop at a constant per second rate over a given distance. In a pistol , this does not apply because the increased time in the bbl causes the bullet to leave at a higher point in the recoil arc ( more pronounced in a handgun) that the difference in bullet drop is hidden , causing the heavier bullet to hit higher on the paper.
Chris

[DMark]

.... In a pistol , this does not apply because the increased time in the bbl causes the bullet to leave at a higher point in the recoil arc ( more pronounced in a handgun) that the difference in bullet drop is hidden , causing the heavier bullet to hit higher on the paper.
Chris
Chris, one of clearest answers as to why heavy handgun loads shoot high whereas heavy rifle loads shoot low. I have tried to explain it in the past, but didn't include the longer dwell time in the barrel of heavy handgun loads as part of my comments.

Thanks!

D. Mark

[BARMAN]

Dmark, I must have some defective Rifles.
My practice M1A was shooting low, I had a friend put some Brass on top of the sight, now she shoots w/ ten clicks up @ 200 ?
I have an M-1 that I made to shoot @ 600/1000 yards and had a friend mill the front sight, so that I'm only 10 clicks up at 600, where before I was 24 up, with the standard Match front Sight ?
Keeps the Rear Sight from looking like an Oval instead of a Circle.
On Palma Rifle the front sight moves, as well as the guys shooting the Tubb Rifle, they always move the front sight down, so their Rear Sight is not up too tall, so their cheek weld is the same ?
Not to Flame, just to Discuss.
BARMAN

[DMark]

The topic is a taller front sight for the U.S. Model of 1917.

Nothing about Palma Rifles.

[emmagee1917]

No , the rifles are not defective , they appear to be doing what I said they would. I don't really follow the first , but let's look at the other two and see what's happening.

#2 You are 24 clicks up. You want the rifle to hit at only 10 clicks up. By setting your rear to 10 clicks up , you are hitting low. You mill ( lower) the front sight. This causes the POI to go up , bringing your low group back UP into the black. This is what we said you'd have to do.

#3 Same thing , by lowering thier rear , the gun would shoot low. Lowering the front will bring the POI back in line with the POA.

Your error is in looking at both adjustments together , which results in a zero net change to the target , rather than each step on it's own merit.
Chris

[eldowerks]

Yup, emmagee and others have it right.
Think about it.
Get the perfect sight picture with your iron sights, then without moving the rifle imagine shortening the front sight.
In order to re-aquire the perfect sight picture, you will have to raise the muzzle, thus raising the point of impact.

[DMark]

.... Get the perfect sight picture with your iron sights, then without moving the rifle imagine shortening the front sight. In order to re-aquire the perfect sight picture, you will have to raise the muzzle, thus raising the point of impact.
Or, in the context of this thread.

".... Get the perfect sight picture with your iron sights, then without moving the rifle imagine you Raise the front sight. In order to re-aquire the perfect sight picture, you will have to Lower the muzzle, thus lowering the point of impact...."

[Andy/CA]

Besides using the British Enfield front sights... The Danes made a front sight for the m1917 with a 3/32nds roll pin. It would be possible to pick one up, and install a longer roll pin, and file to the correct length, then blacken it.



I plan to shoot a local 200 yard military rifle match with my 1917.

The front sight blade is marked "0.60" and the POI is 10-12 inches higher than the POA. Using my normal six o'clock hold, the hits are all high and almost out of the black. This is with either the battlesight or ladder sight at its lowest setting.

Anybody make a taller front sight?

Thanks,

D. Mark

[DMark]

.... The Danes made a front sight for the m1917 with a 3/32nds roll pin. It would be possible to pick one up, and install a longer roll pin, and file to the correct length, then blacken it.
Agree, the Danes sight would be a great fix for my issue - - - and I like the width also.

Wonder if anybody has them?

Thanks!

[Dan Wilson]

You could convert your front blade to "Dutch" style pretty easily.
Cut the blade off the base, mount the base in a vise and (preferably with a drill press) drill it for a roll pin of the width you want.
I am pretty sure that's all the Dutch did.

[DMark]

.... Cut the blade off the base, mount the base in a vise and (preferably with a drill press) drill it for a roll pin of the width you want.....
Outstanding idea. I might give that a try.

Thanks,

[emmagee1917]

Be sure to drill completely through the base. You don't want a blind hole for a couple of reasons. If you trim a tad too short , you will want to be able to either tap the post up a smidge or tap it all the way out and start over. Also , you may find the need , at a future date , to change the ammo your using. Again , it will be a simple matter to change the pin alone.
Chris

[DMark]

Be sure to drill completely through the base.....
Chris,

Thanks, good point.

Mark

[Randy A]

DMark
The battle sight (leaf laid down) is set for 400 yards, the leaf (upright) starts at 200 yards. All settings were set to shoot at the "A" target with a 6'oclock hold. The A target has a 10 inch black area, therefore desired POI is 5 inches high (to hit center). It's all in FM 23-6 available online in PDF. If your rifle does achieve these specifications, I would definitely save the original front sight blade and at least buy a second one to tap in for the matches.

[Randy A]

Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention the ammunition variable. Don't quote me but I think that was a 150 gr. bullet moving @ 2800 fps??? Maybe some of the other guys will check in on that.
Also, Google M1917, on the bottom of the wikipedia page under external links in the FM 23-6 link, download and enjoy.

[DMark]

Randy, thanks. Yup 23-6 is full of good info and I do plan to keep the OEM front sight.

Folks, I'm going to order the 5 sight package from Springfield Sporters. My plan is to see if there is a height that will work for my 200 yard match. If not, I plan to make my own "Dane" with a roll pin.

I'll let everybody know how it works out.

Thanks,

Mark

[jaie5070]

Has anyone tried shooting wth a bayonet on the rifle? According to Ferris it will drop the POI.
john