What Should I Look For?

[Fishnerd]

I started a thead a few days ago, but now I will be using Dick Hosmer's advice. I am possibly purchasing a Trapdoor at an auction in a few weeks. I know nothing about Trapdoors, but don't want to come home with something that is a piece of Bubba art. I have no problem buying a cheapie to use solely as a shooter, but don't want to trick myself in to thinking I am looking at a collector when it is actually a parts gun.
I love Krags and can point out to a novice some obvious points whether it is a carbine or cut down- '03 front sights, rear swivels, bands, etc. Are there anyequivalent "dead give aways" with Trapdoors, or are the anomolies, as a whole, more tricky to spot?
What would be a fair price for a shooter that has no collector's value whatsoever?

[JBinIll]

Best bet is to try to arrange to look at the weapon prior to the auction to determine what it is your looking at as far as model and then try and determine correctness.Knowledge is the key.Unless you've looked at gobs of these,I haven't but I buy every reference work that comes out,you almost need to pick out one of the reference works and start making comparisons.Or take a bunch of pictures and post them for comments.

Shooter grade TD's in my experience are going to run $400+ correct or not.They'll part out for almost that much.

Look this sight over for some basic information http://www.trapdoorcollector.com

One of the commonest alterations encountered is a rifle cut down to carbine length.Filled ram-rod channels on the stock,large barrel diameter at muzzle,and lack of a saddle ring are the easily spotted features.The "Bannerman" type put togethers will in most but not all cases have a mish mash of parts or barrel lengths are off,breechblock too early or late for receiver,.50-70 parts on a .45-70 and vice versa,cut down stocks with way too much wood in front of the top band.Like I said,arm yourself with as much information as possible.Without at least knowing what model you are looking at it's hard to tell you what to look for.Even at that,these rifles were in active use for a long time and undocumented field changes and repairs were made so all things may not meet the book descriptions 100%.

[Dick Hosmer]

Excellent advice. Also, watch Gunbroker.com to see what sells and for how much.

There are expensive hardcover books for those who are truly dedicated/addicted, but an AWFUL lot of trapdoor info can be obtained from Poyer's book on the basic .45-70s, and mine on the .58 & .50 models. Each is around $20 from North Cape. Neither is perfect, but they DO provide a very good starting point, and will kill a LOT of the "Uncle Charlie" stories/BS that some sellers try on the unwary. I'm (still) working on the second half of my effort, which will include all of the rare .45-70 models which Poyer (purposely) omitted. I'd hoped for this year, but 2011/2012 is more likely. [Cheap plug, sorry: For an autographed copy of mine, send $25 (which includes postage) to POB 1367 Colusa CA 95932]

[Fishnerd]

Thanks, that was the basic info I was looking for. I'll go in assuming it is incorrect and see what it goes for. I am an auction junkie, and whenever I come across an auction that contains one firearm, I have found I can often be the only bidder. I bought a VZ24 Mauser, w/no import/export markings for $45 this way just last year.

[JBinIll]

If you have an interest in owning a trapdoor the books Mr.Hosmer suggested will be money well spent.They both have many pictures and drawings with charts describing the parts and applications.They are of a size easily carried around.I often carry them both in my shoulder bag at auctions and gunshows if I'm on the hunt.

[Fishnerd]

For an autographed copy of mine, send $25 (which includes postage) to POB 1367 Colusa CA 95932]

OK Dick, I'll bite. Check will be sent out this afternoon

[sdkrag]

Thirty-one years ago an auction trapdoor started my collecting career. I paid $265 for a cut down (full length barrell) rifle. I didn't even know what caliber it was. Research told me it was probably a 45-70 trapdoor. One box of Remington ammo, a baler twine and truck tire later we decided we could probably shoot the thing since it hadn't blown up. Then I got royally chewed out for shooting off a corner post.
Lessons learned were: Research (that rifle was worth about $100 at that time), more research and more research. Buy the books and talk to people. I still shoot that old rifle. I finally found a full length stock and hardware, and have carried it for Indian Wars re-enacting for twenty years. I have literally put thousands of round through this rifle, all black powder with hand cast bullets. My sons now carry this one and I carry my great-grandfathers Rem. 50-70 rolling block (NY Model). Needed research to figure this one out too.

[Dick Hosmer]

For an autographed copy of mine, send $25 (which includes postage) to POB 1367 Colusa CA 95932]

OK Dick, I'll bite. Check will be sent out this afternoon

NO big deal, at all, but, if you sent it, it has not arrived (and above address IS correct)

[musculus]

HOW TO PICK A NICE TD RIFLE:

FINISH: DOes the rifle appear clean? DOes the wood and/or metal appear refinished? Refinishing or heavy sanding isn't an automatic sign of trouble, but it can cover up other issues. Any parts missing? A missing ramrod isn't a huge deal, but any missing parts have to be factored into cost.

COck the hammer. Does it feel normal? (hard to describe unless you know what a decent rifle feels like, but too easy or binding = RUN AWAY).

Open the breech bolt. See any rust or corrosion? Is it excessively loose. Case hardening or traces thereof is a good sign.

Look down the bore. It doesn't have to be mint, but it should shine and the lands and grooves should be strong and free of pitting.

If things look good, open wallet and extract anywhere from 600-1000++++ bucks for a nice shooter grade rifle depending upon condition, bore, originality.

Funny, I picked up what is probably the 15th or so TD I have owned. I buy (and then sell after a few range sessions) one every couple years--but only if they are at least a DEAL and hopefully closer to a STEAL!).

I got a 750+ grade rifle yesterday from a dealer friend for 450.00 (a steal).

I can post a pic later if anyone is interested, but neeeeeeddd some JAVA to fucntion!!

[pelago]

considering that in the fifties the US was just about giving them away, they have come a long way and are interesting piece of us history, considering Custer got his ass whacked and he had the '73 trap door carbine and some rifles

ONE THING TO TAKE WITH YOU IS A FLASHLIGHT, NOT FOR THE BORE, BUT!!!
To see if there are different shades of finish on the barrel, where it might have started life with wood over it. a flashlight will show the difference in patina., I have several trap doors, starting with '73's that are from the indian war era, No, I am not saying they were in the Indian wars, but just from that era, and i have seen clever clever cut downs to carbines from rifles

serial numbers are important and i have seen older model traps on newer rifles

one other thing, the damn things shoot, i shoot 250 grain round nose with laid back powder at 200 yards at gongs and it is quite fun