M1892 krag cleaning rod & upper barrel band
I am in process of restoring an M1892 Rifle to orignal condition. I am looking for two items - M1892 Cleaning Rod an M1892 Upper Barrel Band. Any assistance would be appreciated.
I have been told that a Member "PM5 madfarmer" is an expert on the Krag and may have a source for Cleaning Rods. Your assistance would be apprecaited. JERE
Scott Duff had some Krag cleaning rods last time I looked. You might check www.scottduff.com and see.
First, you are looking for a M1894 cleaning rod and upper barrel band. There is no such thing as a M1892 Krag; even though they were standardized in 1892, delays in production resulted in the first Krags being designated M1894. Second, you are looking for a one-piece rod that fits in the front of the stock. I don't know of anyone who has an original cleaning rod that they would be willing to sell, but if one were available it would be very expensive. Most folks settle for a reproduction, which might be available at S&S Firearms. Third, you might post on the Krag board for 5Madfarmers or find a thread he has posted and send him an email. M1894 upper barrel bands occasionally show up on ebay and Gunbroker, but they are also expensive and hard to find. Good luck.
The first U.S. production Krag was indeed designated Model 1892, but first production was not started until the year 1894(Ref. Lt. Col. Brophy's and Mallory's book on the Krag.) Very early 92's had a brass tip that was threaded on the end of the rod(1st type) with later production a solid steel rod(2nd type.) Mallory also mentions some trapdoor rods modified to be used also. In the back of Brophy's book, you can find the exact dimensions used to produce the rods. The 2nd type should be very simple for any machine shop or do it your selfers to produce. Rob
Thorinn6 - thank you for your assistance. Following is provided for you eddification "Description and Rules for the Management of the U.S. Magazine Rifle and Carbine, Caliber .30, Washington: Government Printing Office, 1894. First Page reads: U.S. Magazine Rifle and Carbine, Model 1892....the board in its report of August 19,1892 recommended arm...model 1892...approved by Secretary of War on September 15, 1892." The U.S. Ordanance Department recognized three Rifle Models - 1892, 1896 & 1898 - and three Carbine Models - 1896, 1898 & 1899. I think what you ment to say was there are NO Rilfes stamped "1892". All 92s are stamped "1894" and possiby some 1895. Ordanance initially planned to stamp date of manufacture on the Rifles, thought better of it and with 1896 stamped "Model 1896". Thanks again! QUOTE=thorin6;93401]First, you are looking for a M1894 cleaning rod and upper barrel band. There is no such thing as a M1892 Krag; even though they were standardized in 1892, delays in production resulted in the first Krags being designated M1894. Second, you are looking for a one-piece rod that fits in the front of the stock. I don't know of anyone who has an original cleaning rod that they would be willing to sell, but if one were available it would be very expensive. Most folks settle for a reproduction, which might be available at S&S Firearms. Third, you might post on the Krag board for 5Madfarmers or find a thread he has posted and send him an email. M1894 upper barrel bands occasionally show up on ebay and Gunbroker, but they are also expensive and hard to find. Good luck.[/QUOTE]
If you find an original of that let me know. I have a copy but that is the one original I'm missing. Yes, it's the Model of 1892. Patented in 1893 and made starting in 1894 but let's avoid that for now.
Originally Posted by Jere Atchison
The accounting/approval authority section of 5MadFarmers noted that "if there were free floating model 1892 cleaning rods out there, there wouldn't be as you'd buy them." True. The other 3MadFarmers left home but they'd likely agree. There are, as noted above, two different cleaning rods - the very early and the "bulk of production." Neither is common by any means. There are many who have collected for years and never seen an original. They're scarcer than an all night date with Princess Madeleine - which, if you can swing that for me, I'll gladly donate the one original for.
I have 3 unaltered 1892 rifles. Two having some issues. Well, they all have issues but they're honest. I have exactly 1 original rod and have to shuttle it between two as the third should have the other rod. I guess the point is you'll have to settle for a reproduction as the last known original rod, loose in the wild, of which I'm aware was at Bannerman's circa 1939.
Ditto the band. There are two - solid (early) and open. Both have the rod channel integrated in them. The solid (early) is scarce - I have exactly one. Those are period to the rifle so that's not applicable to later rifles - those should be open.
I'm going to point you elsewhere for some and, if you need it, help with the other. "What you need" is something I'd probably be the best source for I suspect. "How to make it" is something you'd be better contacting John Spangler at www.oldguns.net for. Given what I've seen on his site, my knowledge is more extensive but his experience in making the necessary parts is much more extensive. He has an "model 1892" project for sale right now.
It's not just the cleaning rod and bayonet band which will bite you - the early Krags are a minefield of unique parts. Some serialized. That trickled out over time so, depending on serial, some parts should be serialized and some not. After they stopped that (up about 11K) it became easier. Until the Model of 1896 parts started appearing on 1892 Krags.
Daunting? Certainly. S&S, as mentioned, is a source for a reproduction rod. Spangler would be of great assistance in how to alter an 1896 bayonet band to 1892 format. Unless it's early - in which case you're screwed. Joe DeChristopher might be able to help there but it's unlikely. So, from a parts perspective, your choices are:
1) DeChristopher. He has the biggest supply of original parts.
2) Dan Lowry. Great guy.
Then we get to scattered sources.
Cheers and good luck. I would like the serial of your rifle and, if possible, some pictures. I'm amassing enough information to make my brain explode. I'm supposed to publish it at some time to make other people's brains also explode but that won't be for a considerable amount of time. Mainly due to Brophy. The guy was good. I don't want to "regress" the state of knowledge any.
5madfarmers at gmail dot com.
If you want to contact Dan Lower, send me your email. He doesn't have any original cleaning rods for sale, as far as I know, but he might have a front barrel band. He doesn't usually read these forums, but he lives about 20 minutes north of me and I often help him at gun shows. 5madfarmers probably has his email as well.
Good morning and Thank you for this most generous offer. My email is "email@example.com". Thank you, again.
Originally Posted by thorin6