Whats it worth and would it be safe to shoot?

[Paladin]

Does anybody know anything about antique muzzle loaders? I would like to own this one depending on the asking price, but only if there was a way I could have it "proofed" so I could hunt with it occasionally? Is there a way to determine the safety of these old guns?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=142564245

[musketshooter]

From the looks of it, it appears to be a very high quality ML rifle in excellent shooting condition. I would not be afraid to shoot it. It may already be proofed by the French arms maker. If you insist on proofing it yourself, I believe it can be done with about 150 grains of powder and two bullets. I would not test it with the barrel in the stock.

[Major Tom]

The barrel is 'damascus'. That spelling is probably not right. Only black powder can be used safely. I would start with a load of 70gr with a proper lead bullet.

[Paladin]

Any idea of what I should offer the seller or at least to see if his reserve is fair?

[John Sukey]

It's sure as heck going to go for a LOT MORE than that "minimum bid"
Shooting it? NOT A PROBLEM. Unless you load it with bullseye instead of black powder I wouldn't worry about "proof"

[musculus]

Any idea of what I should offer the seller or at least to see if his reserve is fair?

I have seen similar rifles in the 1200-1650 range. don't expect a bargain. if you want a REALLY nice shooting muzzle loader, just write a check for 1150 bucks to DaVIDE Pedersoli for a Gibbs Target rifle.


http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/?ite...Id=150&lang=en


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRPZeSHlHZ4

[Jim K.]

I suspect that the reserve is close to $2000; that is a very high quality rifle.

I would not be too concerned about the safety. I advise not firing Damascus barrel shotguns, but rifles have much thicker barrels and seldom have any problem with black powder.

I am torn on attempts to prove (proof test) an old gun. A proof test is destructive. In other words, you know the gun failed when it becomes a handful of scrap iron. Firing with moderate loads is usually OK and the gun will last a long time.

Whether you can afford it is your business, but it looks like a nice gun and worth a lot more than the current bid ($301) even if it is not fireable.

Jim

[Sunray]

"...spelling is probably not right..." It is. Damascus barrels aren't considered safe with any ammo. The BP salts get into the joints and fester.

[Jim K.]

Hi, Sunray,

I am aware of that condition; I have sectioned Damascus shotgun barrels and found what looks like orange lace. I generally recommend against firing any Damascus or laminated steel shotgun, especially breechloading shotguns that can be fired with modern shells.

But muzzle loading rifles generally got better treatment and have heavier barrels to begin with, so I don't make a blanket statement not to fire them. I do recommend a thorough examination by someone who knows what he is doing. In any case, use only black powder and keep loads on the low side.

Jim

[John Sukey]

Reason Damascus shotguns are unsafe is the way they were constructed which results in carbon inclusions in the metal. While safe enough originaly, those carbon bits get washed out over the years when the gun is cleaned, leaving voids in the metal.

Not Not all are unsafe, as customers liked the pattern on the barrels. so many gunmakers acid etched the same thing on solid steel barrels. Purely cosmetic. BUT i wouldn't want to find out the hard way which one it was since they usualy let go att the breech end where your hand is.