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Thread: Winchester flip sight real or repro?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    11

    Default Winchester flip sight real or repro?

    Hello,
    I have a Winchester M1 carbine I am trying to bring into WWII configuration. I recently bought a Winchester flip sight from a private party on an online auction. After having been burned with some other recent Winchester carbine parts purchases which turned out to be fakes, I would really like to get comfortable with the authenticity of my newly purchased flip sight while I may still have an opportunity to return it. Can you please offer me your opinions? If you are not willing to post details here due to it giving counterfeiters guidance on how to improve their wares, I'd certainly appreciate offline communication, too.

    Anyhow, I've put extensive close-up photos here:

    http://207.98.189.235/flip_sight/

    I can take more if need be.

    Thanks in advance,
    Josh

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Lokks fake to me.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    41

    Default

    Return it, fast.

    Scott

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    17

    Default

    I agree - it's fake.
    ------------------------------------------
    Carbine Club / GCA Member
    "Carbine Guru in Training"
    ------------------------------------------

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    11

    Default

    One thing that has me stumped on this flip sight is the way the bottom of the base is machined. Every fake I've seen is totally flat on the bottom. This one is recessed, which would be a wasted extra step on a fake. It also has very rough machine marks on the bottom (like a lot of Winchester parts) and the milling marks look really old. Also, the flipping part of the sight (I don't know what it is called) seems to have clear forging marks on it (upset areas). Thoughts?

    Thanks,
    Josh

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,652

    Default

    The bottoms on real flip sights were never machined like that. Plus there are at least five more indicators that this is not only a fake sight but it's a bad one at that. Return it for a refund ASAP.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Tuna is right: flip sight bases never looked like that. I actually have an unmarked repro flip sight that has an identical base to yours.
    ------------------------------------------
    Carbine Club / GCA Member
    "Carbine Guru in Training"
    ------------------------------------------

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    11

    Default

    Thanks, folks. It will be going back. It is really very frustrating, though, trying to find a legit flip sight at ANY price. I appreciate that, yes, "the base should have told me it was a fake to start with". However, for justifiable reasons, no experts out there with real sights want to provide photos to a newbie collector like me so I can LEARN to tell the difference. What a world we live in where the deadbeats ruin it for the rest of us. I guess I'll just keep wasting precious time and money buying one repro after another until the experts tell me it is legit. I will not post photos to an active auction (if I find one), as experience has shown me that, if it is a real collectible, that will alert everyone else to it being available and I will quickly drive up the price to my own detriment.

    Thanks,
    Josh

  9. #9

    Default A little advice.

    I am not on the top tier of collecting for the M1 carbine however,you need to join the Carbine Club.Within that group you will find your legitimate people and parts. Knowledge will be learned each and every newsletter. You will find that there are particular people/vendors that are mentioned on the carbine websites that you need to deal with. Contact them with parts request, don`t shop at auctions(alot of them are the humpers or people that have gotten burnt). Take your time,things will fall into place when it is right.

    Loren

  10. #10

    Default

    The best way to get a genuine flip sight is to buy one attached to an original World War II configuration carbine.

    Even if you are able to find genuine USGI early parts, the final result of the restoration won't be the same or worth the same as a legit original carbine.

    What's the point of spending a lot of money on parts claimed to real but are probably fake? Statistically, because of the rarity of the genuine parts and the ever-increasing number of fakes being churned out, the odds are any flip sight, Type 1 band, pushbutton safety, etc. you see for sale is fake.

    A carbine restored with reproduction parts is not original. Neither is one restored with genuine USGI parts. Both are restorations, not original. Originality, like virginity, can't be restored.

    Therefore, if you just have to have a World War II configuration carbine, but don't want to pay what that costs, use reproduction parts honestly sold as reproductions at reproduction part prices. That way you will get what you want (a carbine that looks like it did during World War II) without being ripped off.

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