m1808 flintlocks

[wsfbernie]

I have heard that state militias installed bayonets on the old flints 180 degrees from US.
The studs I have observed are actually mounted on the bottom of the barrel vs. the top. The
bayonet would then be in the opposite side. Was this done to differentiate state troops from
federal? I have seen two muskets thusly equipped. One is marked Mass. Thanks, any input is
appreciated.

[cwartyman]

The 42 series also has Bayonet lugs mounted underneath as does the 1812 series so the bayonets would have been made to fit with the blade on the right side not the left. The 1808 contract muskets were really nothing more than 1795 muskets made by private makers. The contacts specified that they be copied from pattern pieces supplied by either Springfield or Harpers ferry. So if they received a pattern piece that had the bayonet lug mounted on the bottom of the barrel that is how they made them. The Bayo lug was moved to the top of the barrel during the life of the 1795. Hope this helps. 1795 muskets can be found with either configuration. Remember each musket came with its own hand fitted bayonet because each musket was hand made and tolerances were allowed so in reality if you ever see an American socket Bayo mounted where the blade is to the left of the muzzle it is not a correct bayonet for that musket.
Mack

[Weasel]

When the bayonet is locked up it would be at 90 degrees on the rifle. It wouldn’t make any difference if the lug was on the top or the bottom of the bbl. As cwartyman said the 42 series was that way also it has nothing to do with state militias.

[cwartyman]

Weasel,
What bernie was saying is if a bayo that was cut for a top lug was used on a bottom lug musket the blade would be on the left side and vice versus. But there was no difference between arms issued to the regulars or state militias as long as they were the standard arms of the period. To the Governments they were just 1795 muskets, 1812 muskets or 1816 muskets no matter who made them.
Mack

[wsfbernie]

All good info. and very useful. Somehow, I end up with a picture of militia or regulars with
bayonets in either in or out configuration. Apparently, no REAL regs on this. Bottom lug seems
to be the less common, and eventually was superseded by the top lug mounting exclusively.
The bayo I have is not marked in any way, although obviously hand made (which fits the era).
No locking ring (again, correct). No civilian hunter would have need of a triangular bayo, hence
only a military function. In the usual bedlam of issuance, would the small military of two
centuries ago really adhered to uniformity in scarce weaponry? Once again, any input is
helpful.

[cwartyman]

They would have tried to keep the Muskets and Bayos that were produced for them together as being hand made items one bayo would not necessarily fit the next musket. Have to remember that the US didnt get into interchangeable parts until the 1842 series musket. A part may have been made by taking a hardened master, then the part to be replicated was than put under the master than the part was filed into shape. You could do this with things like lockplates and other non round shapes. But round shapes like barrels would be formed on a mandrel and just pounded till they were round than the seam welded together. same thing was done with the bayo sockets and then the blades were welded/brazed onto the socket. Also steel was not used for the barrel only for parts that needed to be hardened like Frizzens bridles and sears. Steel was very expensive to produce, rest of the parts would have be iron.
Mack

[KABAR2]

Weather it is a top stud or bottom stud the bayonet blade will always be on the same side,
the slot would be cut to corospond to the style musket it was ment for if a top stud the slot was cut so the blade
would be to the right, if a bottom stud the slot would be cut so it faced to the right side of the gun.....
the reason for the bayonet being on the right is when it is on the gun and you are loading you hold the gun
with your right hand and handle the ram rod with the left.... hence the bayonet would get in the way if it were on the left side.