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Maybe measure the bullet diameter. If it's .362 or .361 I guess .38 S&W.
Maybe measure the bullet diameter. If it's .362 or .361 I guess .38 S&W.
I tend to believe as some of the others, that it is a manufacturing error that slipped though. The rim diameter of the .38 S&W is .440
Curious as to what pistol fired the .38 Auto round with half moon clips?
Hello Red, I'm not sure what your saying,The .45 Auto Rim was designed so a automatic pistol cartridge could be fired in a revolver designed to use Moon clips. (WWI Colt and S&W revolvers to be exact ). To the best of my knowledge ( and I will be the first to to say there is a lot of knowledge I'm lacking ) The .38 S&W already had a rim, so why would a " Auto Rim " be necessary? Only a cartridge designed solely to be fired in a automatic would need a Auto Rim catrtridge so as to be able to fire the cartridge in a revolver with out moon clips. ( such as the rimed 9MM a few years ago ).Originally Posted by RED
Last edited by Ron James; 12-02-2011 at 10:57.
Johnny P - that certainly looks like a cartridge that slipped past the inspectors. If you want, I can steal your photograph and ask collectors what they think.
Except for a few of the early M1917 revolvers, both the S&W and Colt could chamber and fire the 45ACP cartridges without the use of half-moon clips. The cartridge headspaces on the case mouth. The half-moon clips and the 45AR were both developed to make the use of the two revolvers easier, since the 45ACP cartridges had to be extracted with a fingernail, or punched out with a pencil or short rod of some sort.
I would guess that the same could apply to using 38ACP in a revolver but I've never heard of one set up for that kind of use, and have never seen a 38ACP half-moon clip. But, I'm not saying that it was not done, only that I'm not aware of it. Maybe a description and a photo??
Ray
Last edited by raymeketa; 12-02-2011 at 01:48.
I have a Colt 38 Super Automatic that was my great grandfathers. It ended up in my father’s collection and I got it when he died. In all the years that my father was alive, the pistol never left the gun cabinet. He always said that he had shot it when he was in high school and then put it away. He has been gone for 16+ years now and a while back I decide it was time to get the Super Auto out and shoot it. I knew that there were 2 boxes of ammo that had also been my great-grandfathers and did not want to shoot them. I decided to load a few of my own and therefore researched the round. I found that even though the name has 38 in it that is really not what it is. The length makes it look a lot like a 38, but in fact it is rimless like the 45 acp or the 9 mm para. In fact the info I found had it being loaded with a jacketed .355 inch slug which is the same as the 9 mm para. I did not want to buy another set of dies for this one time trial so I tried to use 38 special dies with NO luck. I then took my 9mm papa dies, adjusted them WAY out, and found that they work just fine. So, even though it says 38 in the name, it is, in my opinion, an LONG 9mm. Perhaps a 9mm para on steroids.
Hecklerusp45
The 38 Super is actually a semi-rimmed design and is often loaded with .357" and .358" bullets with complete safety.
In reality, few of the "38" cartridges are really .38". Most fall into a broad 9mm category which includes bullets between .355" and .358". It all goes back to the early days of outside lubricated bullets when the case diameter and bullet diameter were the same.
I think I'm safe in saying that all of them have been loaded with bullets between .355 and .359 at one time or another. None seem to have suffered from the practice.
Ray
Actually, I think you are right. I have found that most cartridges can take a small range of bullet sizes but there is always a limit to how far you can go. I my younger (foolish) days I loaded up some 38 S&W rounds for my Webley using 9mm Golden Saber slugs (.355 dia.). I fired the first one and it did not sound right. I unloaded and found that the slug had stopped half way down the barrel. Lucky for me that a small piece of wooden dowel was able to knock it back down the way it came. After looking at the slug I realized that all of the expanding gas had passed by the sides of the slug and exited the muzzle leaving the slug behind (slug made very little contact with rifling). I still have that slug lying on my desk to this day as a reminder not to be stupid. (It does not help as much as I had thought it might).
The .38 WCF which was later called the .38-40 used a .400 bullet, and the .44 WCF which was later called the .44-40 used a .429 bullet, so you can't assign an exact bullet diameter by the advertised caliber.
As Ray mentioned, the Super .38, which through the popular use of reversing the Super and .38 became the .38 Super, was a hot version of the old .38 ACP cartridge, and was semi-rimmed.
The Webley-Fosbery revolver was chambered for the Colt 38 ACP cartridge, the cylinder held eight rounds on a "full moon" clip
Daam Johnny P, you came up with another extraordinarily great piece............congrats sir
be safe, enjoy life, journey well
da gimp
OFC, Mo. Chapter
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