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Thread: Can you tell if this story about government buying ammo is credible?

  1. #1
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    Default Can you tell if this story about government buying ammo is credible?

    Being part of leadership of a Tea Party, I receive stuff from many states. The one below caught my eye; I won't forward it to my list unless I am given some verification that it's accurate.

    Can you help?
    Louis of PA

    "There are two stories that have come to light recently, the first is the awarding of a contract to a munitions manufacturer for 450,000,000 hollow point rounds for the .40 caliber. The second story, is how the Department of Homeland Security had already ordered 200,000,000 rounds of .40 caliber, but also ordered 15,000 gun cleaning kits for the .40 caliber weapons, and has put a request out for a virtual shooting gallery for the .40 caliber handguns.

    "650,000,000 round of ammunition is quite a bit of lead and brass. It will sure to drive the price of copper and brass way up. But Homeland Security is not alone in their requests. The other departments, the ones that handle mundane things like meat quality – believe they need to be armed to the teeth. It’s enough to make a non-paranoid person, well, paranoid.

    "The US Department of Agriculture put a bid in for a wide variety of ammunition. I guess raiding farms and raw milk dairies can be VERY dangerous work. The required rounds are listed below, and include shotgun slugs.

    "Frangible rounds – for those who don’t know, are rounds that are designed to break apart when they hit walls or other hard surfaces to prevent ricochets during close-quarters combat.

    "Added: Sep 28, 2011 5:15 pm
    (1) 40 caliber, 180 grain, 120,000 rounds or equivalent,
    (2) 9 mm, 124 grain, 50,000 rounds or equivalent,
    (3) .38 caliber, 135 grain, 10,000 rounds or equivalent,
    (4) .380 caliber, 90 grain, 6,000 rounds or equivalent,
    (5) .223 caliber, 64 grain, 87,500 rounds or equivalent,
    (6) 12 gauge 00 buck, 15,000 rounds or equivalent,
    (7) 40 caliber frangible, 10,000 rounds or equivalent,
    (8) 9 caliber frangible, 10,000 rounds or equivalent,
    (9) .223 caliber frangible, 10,000 rounds or equivalent,
    (10) 12 gauge 1 oz slug, 7,500 rounds or equivalent
    The cartridges shall be delivered to Albuquerque, NM.

    "And the Department of the Interior needs ammunition as well, but much less, and put the order out on September 2011:

    "The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services require the following items, Exact Match Only, to the following:
    1. Remington Frangible .40 Caliber Pistol Ammunition – 2,500 rounds
    2. Remington .40 Caliber Pistol Ammunition (180 grain) Full Metal Jacket – 6,000 rounds
    3. Remington .223 Caliber Rifle Ammunition (62 grain) Full Metal Jacket – 3,000 rounds
    4. Remington FX Marking Cartridges (9 mm) – 2,000 rounds

    "These requirements seem normal considering the possibility of running into grizzly bears and wolverines. These, to me, are acceptable quantities to order.

    "And of course the FBI needs about 100,000,000 rounds of .40 caliber ammunition for law enforcement needs. It posted the request November 15, 2011 and the order will be awarded this week. Oddly, it states a fixed price indefinite-delivery indefinite-quantity type contract; however the pricing requirements go up to 100,000,000 rounds.

    "So with that large order, we now can move the total “excess” number of .40 caliber rounds that is needed by this administration to 750,000,000 rounds.

    "Because we live in a free society they feel they must be armed against Amish folk who want to sell people raw milk, like most humans on this planet drink. Maybe the USDA needs the ammunition to fight the evil cadre of “Lemonade Stands” that will soon be terrorizing people walking down sidewalks in Suburbia America.

    "How can a government justify 2.2 rounds per American citizen? Granted, ammunition does have a great shelf life, but this is utterly ridiculous!

    "The best way to avoid a civil war is not to start one. If “they” are planning to start one, then it would make sense to arm yourself and take away the guns of the citizenry. If this is just for “work”, ie, to stop bad guys, then the numbers just don’t make sense.

    "As Sherlock Holmes would say, “When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth”. We are running out of the impossibles and the improbables. The leftovers are unconscionable and frightening. The game is afoot my friends. Evil in the guise of a benevolent government is still evil. Will the characters be unmasked in time for our free country to remain free, or will we be another stiff on the slab of history."

  2. #2
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    Gawd this story just keeps getting better and better and it's a bunch of crap. I'm sorry, I'm just getting sick of hearing this one because as far as I'm concerned its contrived by people who don't know the real story.

    I remember when the story was 450,000,000 rounds of .40 S&W to be purchased over 5 years. Well I know something about 'gubmint ammo procurement and that is not a lot of ammo for five years. For one thing the Feds take training seriously. When I was a Special Agent with what is now ICE we got 1,000 rounds per agent per year more or less that we used for qualification, training and practice. Now there are 12,000 agents in the Border Patrol alone. That translates to 12,000,000 rounds of .40 S&W for the Border Patrol alone for one year and 60,000,000 rounds for the Patrol alone excluding the rest of Ice (Special Agents, Inspectors ect who all get the same ammo allotment) for five years. It should be mentioned that the Coast Guard which is included in the Department of the Interior and the Department of Homeland Security is included in these contracts too.

    Oh, and by the way, when I was in frangible ammo was used in training only and only in certain venues where the issue ammo was not allowed. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that the tree huggers have mandated more lead free frangible ammo for practice in all venues.

    By comparison a Houston Police Officer dosen't expend more than a couple of hundred rounds in training/practice and that's only once a year as I recall.

    Now do you guys want these people proficient with firearms or not. If not don't complain when they screw up.

    There are real conspiracies out there, this is NOT one of them.
    Last edited by Art; 04-03-2012 at 01:11.

  3. #3
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    This article has been around for a bit. The quanity in my opinion is huge but it might be spend the money before it is gone from the budget thinking.
    To Error Is Human To Forgive Is Not SAC Policy

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by m1ashooter View Post
    This article has been around for a bit. The quanity in my opinion is huge but it might be spend the money before it is gone from the budget thinking.
    That is part of the reason. The other part is that the 'gubmint usually dosen't buy ammo until they're running on empty. I remember a couple of times when the stock was getting very, very low before it was replinished.

  5. #5
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    I am more concerned with who is getting guns. Anyone remember the numbers of guns and ammo for the Dept of education?

    as to the OP. the government will spend $1 to save a nickel. So, the idea that they would buy massive amounts of ammo to save 1 cent more per round doesn't raise any suspiscion for me at all.
    I own firearms not to fight against my government, but to ensure I will not have to.

  6. #6
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    Does anyone know who was awarded the contract?
    To Error Is Human To Forgive Is Not SAC Policy

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by m1ashooter View Post
    Does anyone know who was awarded the contract?
    I don't know who is getting it now but for many years most of these contracts went to Remington, who got most of them followed by Federal. Winchester occasionally slipped in and once in a cost saving deal IMI got a pretty big contract. I don't know for sure but I'm pretty sure that Remington and Federal in that order are the big two.

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