BYF 41 Luger question

[Dan in NY]

Sorry for the OT question, but is there a source for original Luger parts? I have a really nice BYF 41 that has a mis-matched toggle assembly. (I need #62) . Don't know about WW2 germany's rebuild techniques, but would the Wehrmacht put a mismatched toggle in? The pistol looks & operates fine. I know they made about 125,000 BYF's so is it worth trying to track down a #62-marked toggle ? It has a high "cool factor" and will go to my sons.

Only own this one and I'm not a Luger collector, so any help or advice would be great.

thanks

[da gimp]

You might try one of the big importers of the Russian capture Lugers. If they have a mismatched or if you are willing to swap parts & some extra $'s, ya just might get lucky. Try Simpson's in Illinois, they might be able to help point the way.....

[Scott Gahimer]

When it left the factory, you can be assured the toggle was matching. More than 70 years later, and without seeing the pistol, one might only speculate when the toggle assembly was replaced...and why. Sorry, but it isn't very hopeful that you will be able to acquire a matching numbered toggle. Perhaps there was something wrong with it and that's why it was changed in the first place. Of course, we don't know when or why it was changed, or by whom. My advice would be to enjoy it as is. Keep looking; you may get lucky. I'd be careful the way I searched for a part, if you want one that's not been re-numbered to match. The world is full of folks who don't think twice about re-numbering parts in order to sell them.

[Johnny P]

Nazi Germany had regulations on firearms that were rebuilt. The ordnance depots that rebuilt the firearms, the H.Za., marked the firearms as to where they were rebuilt and also marked them indicating that they had been through rebuild and inspected.

The Lugers were not totally interchangeable, and the parts were numbered to keep all the fitted parts together. Finding the correct number doesn't insure that the pistol will function properly.

When you say toggle assembly, which is made up of the breech block, front toggle, and rear toggle, has this entire assembly been replaced?

[mhb]

which is a very good place to check for your parts. Several of the participants have spare parts, and I was able to get a replacement rear toggle section for my former artillery rebuild (the crazy Germans simply rebarreled the pistol and cut-down the 'hump' where the rear sight is located on the standard pistol, notched it and called it good - it shot a foot low at 20 yards).
mhb - Mike

[Johnny P]

I would think that the sight modification came from the fertile mind of "Bubba" rather than a German repair facility. The hump on the rear toggle of an Artillery is lower than the hump where the breech block and the front toggle hinge.

[mhb]

I would think that the sight modification came from the fertile mind of "Bubba" rather than a German repair facility. The hump on the rear toggle of an Artillery is lower than the hump where the breech block and the front toggle hinge.

and no. The pistol in question is a post-WW1 rebuild marked 'Made in Germany', and was completely matching, including the rear toggle section. It wasn't a product of a German government rebuild facility, but of one of the many fly-by-night operations which sprang-up in Germany after the war to make a few bucks from the vast supply of otherwise unwanted surplus arms . It was rebarreled in 7.65mm and shipped to the U.S. in those good old days when the Americans would buy anything.
What the squareheads did was to mill a cut across the rear of the hump at about the midpoint, leaving a square shoulder at the rear of the remaining front half of the hump, and then filed a 'v' notch in the top of it for a rear sight. This appeared to work because of the original notch in the knobs and the fact that the original front sight was tall enough (and the muzzle had to be pointed somewhat downward) that the result was an almost-normal sight picture.
It wouldn't have fooled anyone who knew Lugers, but it did sell. The folks on the Luger forum reported having seen similar rebuilt Lugers of the same vintage.
It does shoot quite well, and to point of aim (after providing a proper rear toggle and sight), but wasn't at all satisfactory with the cobbled-up sight combo it came with.
mhb - Mike

[Johnny P]

Bubba is not of any particular ethnic origin.

The Lugers weren't particulary unwanted after the war. So many small arms had been stolen that a directive was put out by the Reichswehr to turn in all military weapons, and the directive indicated how the weapons were to be property marked. On the Luger and other small arms it was a 1920, which was also the year the directive was put out, and if a civilian was caught with one of the property marked weapons, they were immediately guilty of theft. These have come to be known as the "double date" Lugers, as the 1920 was hand stamped over the chamber near the original date.

[mhb]

that Bubba is of no fixed ethnic or national origin.
But I tend to think of his work as primarily individual attempts to 'improve' existing arms for his own benefit, to meet his own critical and/or artistic (?) standards.
The class of Lugers to which this one belongs is a purely commercial product, made in fair quantity specifically for sale, and to take advantage of the supply of surplus arms. At the same time, German workshops (probably many of them the same ones) 'sporterized' military Mauser rifles to various extents: some of them were fairly presentable, but most were fairly abominable. Hardly any of them bear the name of those who did the work, but large numbers of them were sold in the U.S. in the 1920s and '30s, mostly at low prices, which made them attractive to the unsophisticated American purchaser.
mhb - Mike

[Johnny P]

It would certainly be interesting to know what serial number range your Luger fits into. Following the end of the war DWM resumed commercial production in 1919 of the Luger in the 75,000 serial number range, where production had ended with the beginning of WWI. When the serial number reached the 90,000 range in 1921 DWM made the decision to go with the military type serial number of up to four digits with a letter suffix rather than a six digit serial number. The letter suffix began in the i range, just where it would have been had the first Model 1900 Lugers used the four digit with letter suffix from the beginning. DWM continued to number the Lugers this way up until the u letter suffix where Mauser took over DWM production.



In these Lugers DWM used up left over military parts, as they were strapped for cash and trying to get back on their feet. Some parts were rejects from their military contract, which were renumbered to the new pistols.