A reloading question

[psteinmayer]

I've been reloading 30-40 Krag and 30-06 for more than 25 years now... I think I have a pretty good handle on the ins and outs. Yesterday, I reloaded my first 20 rounds of 7.7 ammo and I'm a little stumped: I had to lube the hell out of the cases (waaayyyyy more than I ever have with another caliber), and then it took quite a bit of effort to resize them. It seems that the case necks were expanded quite a lot and had to be sized back down. I confirmed this by measuring the case neck before and after sizing. I have never experienced this with 30-40 or 30-06, or for any pistol ammo for that matter... Is this normal in 7.7x58? If the case necks have expanded that much, then the round must be extremely loose in the chamber. I succeeded in loading the 20 rounds with 39 grains of IMR 4064 and Hornady 174 grain FMJ bullets. I'm heading to the range Saturday.... We'll see how well I did, but I am very curious about the case size issue... I welcome any advice.

Thanks in advance
Paul

[Guamsst]

Ok, So you were reloading what? Once fired commercial brass I am guessing. From one rifle or multiple rifles? My guess is the chamber of the rifle is sloppy or headspace is bad. I am not a reloader and may be way off but to me it seems the most likely problem is in the 70yo wartime produced rifle. Is the bolt matching numbers?

[kcw]

You're full length sizing? Is the excessive pressure actually needed to resize the over expanded case body, as is common with headspace issues? Try adjusting your die to merely neck size and see what happens. Those of us that reload 303 British commonly limit ourselves to neck sizing only due to chamber issues common to the round. IF you have a headspace issue and IF it is not over excessive to the point of being dangerous, you may be able to get away with neck sizing. If neck sizing works you just remember to segregate your brass to a specific gun if you have more than one gun of the same caliber.

[psteinmayer]

This was once fired Norma brass. The rifle is my sportered Type 99 and the numbers all match. The rifle was given to my father back in the 1950s and he is the one who sported the gun. Before he got it, I couldn't say how many rounds went through it, but since he got it, probably less than 200 (I've fired it more than anyone). The die is actually hanging up on the necks, not the remainder of the case. Once the necks sized down, the cases slid in and out of the die with ease.

[Hecklerusp45]

Sounds like a chamber issue. How many reloads are you getting out of a piece of brass? Do you have any problems with gas leaking out?

[us019255]

If the rifle were mine I would get some Cerrosafe, make a chamber cast, mike it carefully and figure out exactly what I was dealing with. A comparison of the actual chamber, the bore, your reloading dies, and specifications for the caliber should allow you to figure out where the problem resides. Once the specific problem(s) are identified, this forum should be able to suggest safe workarounds.

[psteinmayer]

I figured it was a chamber issue also... as the case necks were expanded quite a bit. I just thought it was interesting and I've never encountered such expansion before. The rifle certainly fires well enough and the accuracy is good... By the way, this is the first time I have reloaded 7.7, so this is once fired Norma brass.

[Guamsst]

As has been pointed out in other threads, numbers matching is not a guarantee with a Japanese rifle. you figure 100,000 in a lot (0-99,999) but only 1,000 possible bolt numbers (000-999) and you have 100 possible matching bolts in each series. It is likely, due to the time it's been in your family, that this is the original bolt, but still a chance it happened to be swapped with the same last 3 numbers.

It's also possible it's 100% correct with only a few hundred rounds through it and has just always had poor headspace. Remember, it's a battle rifle, not a target rifle. Some battle rifles have excessive tolerances (by civilian standards) and this is on purpose as reliability is more important than extreme accuracy.

[Doug Rammel]

Try different brass. Norma brass is thicker at the bottom of the case. I had the same problem with a type 38. started neck sizing instead of full length sizing.

[blu 97]

Both my 7.7 and 6.5 seem to have the same issues your talking about.
The 7.7 blows the neck way oversize.
The 6.5 expands the case so much its very hard to even neck size.