Two possibly foolish questions --

[fredtheobviouspseudonym]

This may have been covered in another thread.

As I understand it the 1865 trapdoors were converted from Civil War rifles -- new hammer, brazed liner to the barrels, and 1863 model locks.

The 1873 Trapdoors were completely new made.

The 1868 Trapdoors were mostly made from new but a few used locks and other parts converted from the stocks built during the Civil War.

Two questions --

1.) Am I correct or in error on the aforementioned beliefs re Trapdoors?

2.) While the 1873 Trapdoors were made from new, did the Springfield Armory use the old machinery for the locks and possibly stocks that they used during the Civil War?

Have looked on line but fear I haven't found this information. Not necessary for me to know but I would like to fill this gap in my knowledge.

Thank you.

[11mm]

1866 Model Trapdoors were converted from Civil War rifles by approximately the method you state.
I imagine that Dick Hosmer will answer the rest, but why wouldn't the armory use old machinery (Blanchard stocking lathe, for instance) if it worked? It was probably adaptable.

[Dick Hosmer]

Short answer:

The Model 1865 (about 5000) was a conversion of the 1861 musket, which had flat barrel bands. The breech parts were added, but caliber (.58) was unchanged (barrel was not lined). The cartridge was a rimfire.

The Model 1866 (about 52,000) was also a conversion, but of the 1863 type 2, or 1864, musket, with oval bands. Breech was slightly simpler, and caliber was reduced to .50-70 center fire, utilizing a brazed-in liner.

The Model 1868 (also about 52,000) was the first TD model to have a separate receiver with screwed-in barrel, and, while NOT a "conversion", MANY parts were reused or modified.

The Model 1870 (about 12,000) was almost identical to the 1868, and still in .50-70, but had a shorter receiver (same length as the later .45-70s). Again, many parts were reused/reworked.

The Model 1873 (about 570,000 of all types - remember this is the short answer!) was the first .45-70; first to be blued all over, first to have all new stocks, etc.

Springfield was very frugal - even the last of the trapdoors used small parts, screws, swivels, trigger-guards, buttplates, etc. for as long as they possibly could. Machinery was modified as they went along - nothing was wasted.

You can see examples of all of these models at www.picturetrail.com/sa4570af. If you - or anyone - is interested in this particular period, you might enjoy my book on the subject. $25 to POB 1367 Colusa CA 95932, autographed and postpaid.

[psteinmayer]

Dick,

Every time I view your collection (and I've viewed it several times now), I'm amazed! I sure wish I had some of those in my own collection... I am happy to have a very good example of a 1873 Rifle, a 1873 Carbine (not custer), and a 1898 Krag rifle... One of these days (probably after Memorial Day) I will post pictures of the Trapdoors. BTW, I also have a box (opened but complete) of 45-70 blank rounds for line throwing... although I am not sure of the date.

Paul

[Dick Hosmer]

Thanks for the kind words - what a lot of people may not realize is that there are a lot of skipped lunches and vacations not taken, on display there. It would be easy to think - "oh, look at all those rifles (a few of which are now valuable) - he must be rich." Nothing could be further from the truth - but I will admit to having been very focused over the last 40+ years!

[psteinmayer]

Oh no, on the contrary, I understand all about giving up for collecting! I wound up selling most of my model airplane engine collection to purchase my last weapon! I share my collecting with my father, and I must admit that he did most of the collecting (and I'm inheriting) until recently... Our most recent acquisition is a Type 99 Arisika. There are so many that I would love to add to my now growing collection, and my current enemy is money, and a wife who thinks that paying bills is more urgent, LOL... Anyway, we are looking to add a 1903 and a 1917 Lee-Enfield. But I will say that I DO envy your conviction and focus... and I can only hope to be so lucky as to have a collection like yours one day!!!

Oh, and I love your quote too!!!

[fredtheobviouspseudonym]

To Mssrs. Hosmer & Steinmayer:

Thank you.

Sorry to take so long to get back to you; I have been off line for about 6 weeks. No problems, only scheduling to get to internet access.

As usual, Mr. Hosmer & others herein are superb informative sources.