.22 Winchester Mod. 75 Tgt.
A friend not knowledgable about .22's just acquired this rifle and gave it a good cleaning to include brass brushing the barrel. At the range yesterday at 50yds the best he could get was 2 1/2 to 3 in. groups using the german Standard Plus La Pua (sp), and Wolf Match rifle. Fired approx.250-300 rds with no improvement. How many more rds through the nice clean barrel does he require before improvement. I'm guessing this rifle should be good for at least 3/8th in. groups at 50yds with good ammo, and a tight butt plate nut.
what does the muzzle look like? Are the stock bolts tight? Shooting off a good rest and solid table orshooting bench? Was there wind or mirage that day? are the sights or scope tight? Lots of vaiables that can cause bade groups including the rifle not liking the ammo. Wolf and standard Plus are made by the same company in Germany. Lapua bought out Standard Plus . Wolf was made for a Russian company at Standard Plus. Both are close to being the same ammo. At one time, they had different lube compound. Haven't shot it for a while, so don't know if this is still true. Try some Eley and RWS, remember to clean the barrel and re-season when changing brands. Check all screws to see if they are tight. Play with the barrel tension screw starting with it backed out, then tighten to see if groups get tighter or open up. These rifles will shoot very well if the crown is good and you find ammo it likes. Hopfully he didn't chean from the muzzle end and damage the crown.
I learned to shoot on my dad's Model 75 in 6th grade in the NRA Smallbore program about 1960. Later my older brother took it and "improved it" (I was a bit shocked) put full adjustable sights and a heavier stock on it for his kids to go through NRA small bore. He loaned it back to me for two of my daughters to use; yes, the better sights helped. Then, big bro's son asked for "my ("his") gun back..."
Really a great youth rifle. With its barrel band it was kind of a mini gallery Krag.
I sure wish I had one like the rifle I leaned with. It was certainly capable of scores in the 90's with DCM ammo when I was a kid.
I have two model 75's, both are tack drivers. Neither one is picky about the ammo they like. The only cleaning I have done on either rifle is to pull a couple of dry patches through the bore and dissasmble the bolts to clean them.
Try some other standard velocity ammo. You have already tried Wolf Match and Lapua Standard Plus, which are both made by SK Jagd so you can skip trying any more SK. Anything standard velocity should shoot well in a 75 that is in good condition.
Are you shooting yours with irons or scoped?
I would start by taking the action out of the stock and making sure everything is clean and tight. Check the stock for a crack in the wrist or around where the receiver mounts. Make sure the action is tight in the stock. Make sure the ammo feeds smoothly from the magazine and is not damaging the bullet when it is chambered. Check the bore for pits or rings and make sure the throat is okay. If you don't have a headspace gauge you can get a crude reading on the headspace by putting a piece of scotch tape on the head of an unfired cartridge and seeing if it creates any additional resistance closing the bolt, if the bolt closes freely you might have a problem there.
Thanks for all the input. Will pass it along. I did find out just yesterday that the barrel has had about 2 inches cut from its original length. So the new owner said; this was a common practice in days gone past. Sounds kinda dumb to me but what do I know.
that's a shame,
Originally Posted by SUB VET II
may want to check the crown,
I also have 2,
an decent military version, and a nicer later production ,
both shoot very well, typically 1/2 is the worst group I've had, depending on ammo, it does much better
Unless you can see crud hanging down from the rifling I would not use a brass brush on rimfire rifle at first. Sorry about being after the horse left the barn, but after a bore inspection with a light, if there is no safety issue, shoot it as as at first. Also call the fellow who sold it to you, in the nature of being curious about what it grouped for him. As far as groups are the groups uniform in shape, scattered all over, up and down or do they make different patterns when shot. Have you put in in a rock solid rest?. Two suggestions call Remington and ask if they would do any inspection to see if it is in specification for this model. Also you can look for a new (nos) barrel. Plus how many yards was the target.
Call Remington to inspect a Winchester rifle?
I certainly would not say cutting the barrel was a 'common practice' but 2" would not affect accuracy if done properly. Have a gunsmith check to make sure its perfectly square.
A 75 should be able to put 5 rounds in 1" at 50 yds and most will do half that. Something is definitely wrong. Buster's advice is what you should start with. Make sure everything's mechanically sound and the barrelled action is bedded in a good stock.
Originally Posted by SUB VET II
The 75s are an inexpensive version of the 52. On my 52C, the action screw is torqued to 40 in/lb (I've heard up to 65 in/lb but 40 works well on mine). The barrel band screw is another matter. The 52s with the forend band are soft bedded with rubber pads in various places. One is between the forend and the stock. I replaced the on on mine with a piece of bicycle tire inner tube and that worked pretty well. As you change the torque, the groups improved until, at some point, they start to open up again. Mine's goos at 22 in/lb, so torque is about half the action screw torque. It worked out close to the same on my CZ Varmint so maybe that's a good place to start.
Changing ammo isn't going to change a 6MOA rifle into a 1 MOA one, especially if you're shooting SK/Wolf. That has proven to be a consistant performer across a broad range of RF rifles.
Next would be that barrel. Cutting 2" off makes no sense. Unless it was done in a lathe, that could be the problem. Definitely have a 'smith check that. Since it's already been cut down, you won't be hurting a thing to have the smith square it up and recrown it.
(1) ref: cleaning .22 rimfire bores
This topic can really stir up a discussion forum. There a people who literally never clean one to Lones Wigger who cleans after each forty shots for record during a 160 shot match.
Can you damage a bore with bad cleaning technique - yes.
Will a 75 Rockwell B scale hardness bronze brush wear out a 30 Rockwell C scale hardness steel bore - not likely.
Most target grade ammo has wax coated bullets (as opposed to copper washed hunting/plinking ammo). After cleaning it may take 10 rounds or so to get the bore to settle back into equilibrium.
With wax coated bullets you will probably find the first 3 to 5 shots from a cold barrel (dirty or clean) will "walk" in elevation until the barrel warms to a steady state. When target shooting many will shoot 3 to 5 into the berm to warm the barrel before shooting on the target.
As others have pointed out a bad crown may be the problem.
The 75T has an adjustable barrel band bedding device in the forend. This will affect POI and group size. Requires experimentation.
Do the dollar bill test to check barrel to forearm clearance between the barrel band and receiver - should be clearance all the way. If the forearm is touching the stock group size will open up. I've had two Remington 40-X's and a Model 37 with warped forends that required reworking. The wood is 50 to 75 years old and a lot can change.