curious

[remus]

Has anybody ever been given a reason or know why the buttstocks on the 38 or 99 rifles always had the two piece buttstock? Always seemed like extra work to me and it just seems odd that the stocks would be built like that.

Besides, it looks funny. Odd folks those japanese.

[Deano41]

I have read there were several reasons. The wood used was/is not as strong as walnut or beech. It was also done to preserve the amount of wood used to make the stock. The two pieces are dove-tailed and glued for added strength.

You may have also noticed there is a top and bottom tang at the rear of the receiver and trigger guard. This was done to strengthen the wrist area of the stock.

[psteinmayer]

To be honest, I've never heard of one splitting either Dean... They are actually surprisingly strong.

It might also have to do with the resources in Japan... The wood used may have not been available in the sizes needed for one-piece stocks.

Paul

[dave]

The reason is very simple. Look at your jap rifles carefully, that bottom spilced on part has grain which runs parallel with the bottom downward angle of the stock, not parallel with the more straight run top of stock. So the grain at the toe runs all the way back to the grip. This prevents chipping and breaking of those short 'grain runs' (my expression) at the toe.
Perhaps only a percieved problem by the Japanese what with steel and especially cupped butt plates but as mentioned above the wood was not as strong as most stock wood! I just got a VZ-24 that had such a chip from the toe, (walnut) butt plate noticably bent in, lucky for me someone had nailed the rather large chip back on.

[Deano41]

Ya know Dave, I'd never really thought about it. When I read your post, I looked at the rifles, and sure enough the grain on the bottom piece ran different than the top piece. (You don't suppose they planed it that way do you? :>) )
Thanks,

[Guamsst]

Every one I have seen has the grain pattern mentioned.

After seenig an M-44 Mosin with a large SLAB of the buttstock flaked off and glued back, I can appreciate the benefit of the Japanese design. Although, 70yrs later, those splits from the wood shrinking are an eyesore.

[dave]

Over on ParallaxBills site there is a large group of collectors who are real knowledgeable on jap rifles. One guy there has about every, maybe every, Type 99 ever made. Every variation, series, maker, etc. If you have difficult qestions on jap rifles that is the place to go! I did not think this stock thing up by myself but got it off that board and yes, it was planned that way. I have read it was to "preserve" the amount of wood but how would it? Takes so many cube inches weather you cut it in one or 10 pieces. Or to use smaller (narrower) blanks, but for every stock they made? The grain/chipping answer is the only one I ever heard which is logical and makes sense! As for looks, well they are just military rifles and it makes good conversation!

[Guamsst]

Smaller boards from smaller trees give a little logic to the preserving wood theory. But I would say that was just a secondary minor benefit.

[Johnny P]

If it takes a 2X4 piece of wood to make the long section of the stock as opposed to a 2X6 piece, you can see how the savings in wood would accumulate.

When the U.S. went to the C Type stock on the 1903 Springfield, it took a larger blank for the C stock. At the beginning of WWII Ordnance had a lot of S type blanks, but the stock lathes were set up for the C stock. When the S type blanks were run through the C type lathes, the "scant" stock was the result. There wasn't enough wood for the full pistol grip.

For a number of years there was a Georgia-Pacific sawmill a few miles south of where I live. At one time they cut a variety of lumber, but changed over to nothing but huge timbers cut from pine. I knew the plant manager and ask where all the timbers were being used. He explained the timbers were shipped to Japan where they were then cut into the size lumber they needed. Japan as never been rich in timber.

[da gimp]

to the best of my knowledge, the Japanese still import a great deal of veneer grade & other walnut & oak besides lumber used as building materials