US Army without a carbine?

[IditarodJoe]

. . . ok, I'm well past 60 so I'm allowed to ask dumb questions. If you don't believe me, just ask my wife.

Did the U.S. military really not have a standard carbine of any sort between the early 1900s when the Krag was phased out and 1942 when the first M1 carbines were issued? I mean, we still had a "horse cavalry" during that time, didn't we . . . what did they use for a standard long gun?

[Art]

The "short rifle" which was used by engineers and similar troops in some European armies was adopted by the British and the United States almost simultaneously to replace both the long (29"-30" barrel) rifles and the 18"-20" barrel carbines in their militaries. It was thought that these 24" to 25" barrel rifles were suitible for all troops and would eliminate the need for different barrel length rifles for cavalrymen, infantrymen and specialized troops like engineers. It turned out to be an excellent decision. In fact most countries followed suit by World War II.

Brophy has a whole section on cavalry accoutrements for the M1903 rifle.

The M1 Carbine, as you know, was never intended to be a cavalry weapon even though it had a cavalry sling set up. It was used, interestingly, for many of the functions of the original "short rifles" before they became general issue.

[Weasel]

The U.S. Military didn't have a standard carbine after the Krag until WW2. The "Horse Cavalry" used the standard 1903 Springfield rifle.

[Fred]

The M1 Carbine as I've understood it, was originaly intended to be a replacement for the 1911 automatic. Maybe it was thought it would given the soldier increased range over the 1911.

[dave]

Inceased range and did not require the skill necessary to master the pistol. Meant to be used by behind the lines troops and officers, others who nomally carried only a side arm. It just didn't work out that way! Carbines were produced in excess of such needs and pistol production was also increased!

[SMOKEY]

Yeah, what Weasel said. He's so smart, I think he is my hero.

[DarylBruce]

Was the WWII Carbine the only US Military carbine not the same caliber as the standard Issues Rifles?

[Art]

Was the WWII Carbine the only US Military carbine not the same caliber as the standard Issues Rifles?

No, for example the Sharps Carbines used heavily by both the Union and Confederate forces in the Civil War were .54 Caliber. The standard U.S. and Confederate rifles were .58 or .577 caliber, depending on whether they were Springfield or Enfield models.

[Fred]

No, the 45-70 U.S. Springfield trapdoor Rifle used a 405 grain bullet and 70 grains of black powder until around 1884 when it used a 500 grain bullet and 70 grains of powder, but the U.S. Springfield trapdoor Carbine used a 405 grain bullet and 55 grains of powder throughout it's lifetime in the service. A lighter load for sure that didn't leave any unburned powder residue as well as lighter recoil.

[Weasel]

The 1859 and the new model 1863 Sharps were .52 cal. The Reproductions for some weird reason are .54 cal. When they converted the Sharps to 50/70 after the Civil War Sharps with the bbl diameter of .515 or less were converted as is. Those with a larger diameter than .515 were reamed and sleeved.