Serial number 17, U.S. Model 1870 Springfield Rifle

[Fred]

Here is a U.S. Model 1870 Rifle with the number of 17 on it that could be a serial number put on before the use of such a sequential accounting was dropped early in production. I brought it home today after coming upon it in the posession of an old man from Council Bluffs, Iowa who asked me if I was interested in looking at it. He said that his wife had died recently and he was just getting rid of a lot of things around the house. It's in "attic Condition" with the original trapdoor sling whose leather is quite supple and clean. The wood hasn't been cleaned or messed with and has never been sanded. The light colored lines under the forarm is a reflection and not in the wood. The wood is clean and unmolested and quite dark. The crack in the edge of the wood next to the number is the end of a very minor age crack that is solid and runs only 3/4 of an inch. That being said, there is no sign of there ever being any stamps on the stock anywhere. The metal is smooth and although dark in places should clean up nicely. There is only one small patch of pitting on the right side close to the muzzle. The bore is excellent. Most of the original dark oil quench finish is on the receiver and the lockplate and hammer. Two click tumbler works perfectly. I pulled the lock plate and the inside of the lock plate was clean and without any dirt or grease. I lightly oiled it and put it back on. The rifle shows use but no abuse. At some point after being in the field, it was cleaned and just set aside. It must've been made within the first hour of the first day of production of this model. The rifle is possibly one of the very first in the production run of the 1870. Sorry for the fuzzy pictures, I'll take better ones and post them here. The stock has the old original linseed oil finish put on at the Armory. It's quite shiny and has turned the stock dark with age. Anyway, here it is, possibly the 17th 1870 Springfield rifle produced. It's for Sale or Trade. Fred Gaarde

[Fred]

[dave]

Dick Hosmer, I think he now hangs at the Krag forum. (Not here on CSP but another one) He may be interested.

[Dick Hosmer]

Thanks to Dave for calling my attention to this. Now that CSP is back up, I intend to be active on both the TD and Krag boards. Fred - did you ever liberate that early 1868 from your aunt? :-)

As to the 1870 - that IS an interesting configuration, and one which I did not physically encounter when writing my book, though I had heard of such markings. To my eye, there are a couple of "inconsistancies", one being the shape of the trigger, and also the width of the raised wood "border" around the lock. Both appear - at least from the pics - to be a bit "off". Of one thing I AM fairly sure, and that is that it is NOT one of the 1000 Trials guns (of which I am actively seeking an example) since thay have the rear sight tight to the receiver. Perhaps they started to number the arms when regular production commenced? If so, the practice was abandoned very soon thereafter, as the GREAT majority of M1870s have NO numbers at all.

[Fred]

Dick, I wonder if there were 33 extra rifles with a serial number. Total production was I believe 11,533. What were the extra 533 for? Could there have been, like the early Krags, a rifle given away to the existing Governors? Minus of course possibly three governors of recently re introduced confederate states, ie Texas and Georgia? As for the rear sight, could there have been variations that were included within the 1,000 that were to be tested in the field which included so many with rear sights positioned in different places?
No Dick, the old gal is still breathing and so I'm waiting for the opprtunity to approach her adopted son when I come up there for her funeral, if she doesn't outlive me. I wonder what the number is? It seems to me that it was one or two digits. We'll find out then.

[Fred]

Thanks to Dave for calling my attention to this. Now that CSP is back up, I intend to be active on both the TD and Krag boards. Fred - did you ever liberate that early 1868 from your aunt? :-)

As to the 1870 - that IS an interesting configuration, and one which I did not physically encounter when writing my book, though I had heard of such markings. To my eye, there are a couple of "inconsistancies", one being the shape of the trigger, and also the width of the raised wood "border" around the lock. Both appear - at least from the pics - to be a bit "off". Of one thing I AM fairly sure, and that is that it is NOT one of the 1000 Trials guns (of which I am actively seeking an example) since thay have the rear sight tight to the receiver. Perhaps they started to number the arms when regular production commenced? If so, the practice was abandoned very soon thereafter, as the GREAT majority of M1870s have NO numbers at all.

Dick, I've looked at those two features on the rifle and I have to conclude that because my photo's are so lousy from my cell phone camera, you're seeing a distortion. The trigger is of the standard type, being of the 1855 pattern, and the lock mortise is not of an unusual shape, although slightly worn, not sanded, around the edges. Thanks for your feedback. The information you shared regarding the existence of other 1870's with serial numbers although rare, is of great interest. May I ask, do you know if the quantity of the other rifles with numbers? Also, are they under 34? Could you please tell me what the numbers are that you've heard of? Thanks Dick! Fred

[Dick Hosmer]

Fred - I honestly can't say. The "numbered/non-numbered 1870" argument/discussion has been a thorn in everyone's side for years. They are fairly uncommon, at least here in my part of the country. I own three - two complete rifles and a barelled action. All have the sight 7/16" from the receiver, even though one is "early" (SS rod/keeper, no "Model" on block) and one is "late" (DS rod/keeper, has "Model" on block). The b/a (early) has 77|77 in the typical ornate SA font, on the bottom. 76|76 (also, apparently - no pic provided - on the bottom) was reported in the SRS magazine - MAC - years ago. When I was writing my .58/.50 book, a man said he had 13|13, also on the bottom - I was excited until I saw his pictures (HUGE block numbers, not like mine at all). Other numbers, all small (3 digit max) like yours have been reported, but I do not have details. Most common M1870 numbering seems to be a large one, often 5 digits, on the right side of barrel only. Many are over the total made, so they cannot be serials. I'll TRY to provide more detail when my book gets reprinted, but the pickings are slim. MANY people (look at the GB ads, for example) cannot even tell an 1870 from an 1868.

FWIW - I am ACTIVELY seeking an 1870 Trials rifle (rear sight tight to receiver). Complete rifle (in decent but NOT "minty" condition) preferred, however a barreled action would work just as well. Depending on what comes, I will have an 1870 for sale. While there are technically three "collectible versions", two will do!

Do you have one of my books? I think you'd like it.

[Fred]

Dick, no I haven't had the pleasure of buying and reading one yet. I was intending to a while back, but I was notified that I would be losing my job, my dog became paralyzed in the hind legs, my dad died, my mom crashed her car (she healed). my fiance threatened to leave me if I didn't marry her and the left front wheel fell off of my riding lawnmower, all within one day. No joking. One of my buddies told me I should've written a country western song while I was on rock bottom. I just forgot to pursue it after that. However, I'm able to take my time to find a fun job, we buried my dad and it was a very nice funeral. I'm now married to a gal who's financially independent, living on a ranch, raising horses, I've another dog, my mom's doing fine and I've fixed the lawnmower. So, yes Dick, I think I Would like to buy one of your books. I found your old site advertising it. I'll just go to there and follow up on it, seeing as how I've got the time to read it now, living in the lap of luxery in the arms of a woman who finds me irresistable for some strange, probably twisted reason. Oh, the rifle has a cleaning rod with a single shoulder and it has the word MODEL on the block.

[Dick Hosmer]

It will be my pleasure to autograph one for you (signed copies only available from me) - P.O.B.1367, Colusa, CA 95932 - price is now $25, post-paid. Sure glad you are doing better - perhaps YOU should write a book! Don't forget about walking through a snowstorm to school, five miles uphill both ways! :-)

[Fred]

Dick, It seems that in all of these variations of numbers, the ones like mine with the smaller numbers that appear to be serial numbers within three digits just might be, like you said, an early attempt to put serial numbers at the beginning of the production run, like on the previous model of 1868. It'd be interesting to see what those other examples are. It'd give us some idea on just how many were produced with that numbering system and therefor how many are out there to be found. Like you said, it couldn't have gone on very long, because the practice was halted within the three digit range. Maybe, the first day. That being said, it seems that it's possible that my rifle could very well be the 17th rifle of the production run. Or at least it has the 17th barreled receiver that was produced, if there was the practice of fully assembling rifles from them as they were taken off of a storage rack. That might explain why there is such a mixture of the early and late versions of breechblocks and rods. I believe that the original firing pin has been replaced with a later version from a 45/70 as it seems to be contoured differently, is longer and is missing the spring. I'll go to Dixie Gun Works and see if they have an original 50/70 firing pin. Weren't they similar to the early 45/70 pins? Correction...the firing pin is certainly NOT an early 1873 firing pin, nor is it a later firing pin. Maybe an earlier pin? I'm looking for a match on line. No... the 1870 rifles used the same firing pin as the 1868's. This then might be the original firing pin. Dick, could you please post a picture of an 1868 or 1870 firing pin for me? I'd really appreciate it. Thanks, Fred